# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 450
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8983 "2012-12-08T22:02:20Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Zimmerman said he shot Martin because the kid threatened to kill him. What corroborating evidence do you have this happened? > > I think you’ve forgotten that Zimmerman’s nose has nothing to do with why Martin was supposedly shot, and neither do those nicks on his head. This is absolutely untrue. Zimmerman, true, has said Martin threatened his life, but he also described a physical attack by Martin, and he exhibits injuries consistent with a physical attack. Zimmerman’s statement as you would have it sounds as though he said, “Martin threatened to kill me, and for this, and no other reason, I shot him.” But that’s not the case. Zimmerman’s claim includes both the verbal threat (for which there is no corroborating or contradictory evidence) and the physical attack, for which there is corroborating evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8984 "2012-12-08T22:07:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I think you’ve forgotten that Zimmerman could legally have shot Martin for the punch in the nose. Not a completely correct statement of the law. Zimmerman could have if, and only if, he reasonably believed he was danger of subsequent serious bodily injury. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8985 "2012-12-08T22:27:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not a completely correct statement of the law. > > Zimmerman could have if, and only if, he reasonably believed he was danger of subsequent serious bodily injury. …or one of the other requisite conditions laid out in 776.012. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8986 "2012-12-08T22:53:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But that’s not the case. Zimmerman’s claim includes both the verbal threat (for which there is no corroborating or contradictory evidence) and the physical attack, for which there is corroborating evidence. The physical attack was not the reason that supposedly made Zimmmerman reach for his gun and pull the trigger, based on his written statement. He claimed Martin caught sight of his weapon and moved to grab it. He claimed that Martin also threatened him. It was only then, says Zimmerman, that he thought to defend himself with lethal force. He didn’t even know he had a gun until Martin reminded him he had it, remember? And what judge is going to believe _that_ shit? If what Zimmerman says is true about the threat, he would have had a valid claim for self-defense even if no physicial fight had occurred. Sure, we can fanwank a scenario in which he killed Martin because of the blows to his head, but that is not what Zimmerman says is what caused him to pull the trigger. This can’t be ignored just because he had some blood on his head, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8987 "2012-12-08T23:03:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not a completely correct statement of the law. > > Zimmerman could have if, and only if, he reasonably believed he was danger of subsequent serious bodily injury. “you got a problem now mother fucker”. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8988 "2012-12-08T23:09:07Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The physical attack was not the reason that supposedly made Zimmmerman reach for his gun and pull the trigger, based on his written statement. Never mind. If you are going to just make shit up like this, go ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8989 "2012-12-08T23:11:28Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > And what judge is going to believe _that_ shit? what is not to be believed? it was concealed. [Happens all the time](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/29/business/tsa-is-finding-more-guns-at-airport-security-checkpoints.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0). If he wanted to kill Martin he had ample opportunities to do it both legally and illegally. He chose to call the police and stay in his car when Martin approached him. It was well into a beating that this occurred. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8990 "2012-12-08T23:40:48Z")
From: [Zimmerman’s Attorney Releases Statements to Police – NBC 6 South Florida](http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/OMara-Releases-Zimmermans-Statements--159844685.html) > [@](#): > > During an interview and truth verification test on Feb. 27 that was recorded on video, Zimmerman said that he feared for his life when he fatally shot Martin and said he had forgotten he was carrying a gun until Martin reached for his holster. > > **“To be honest with you, the whole time I forgot that I had the gun. When he said I was going to die and I felt him brushing, it automatically clicked he was going for my gun," Zimmerman said.** If we accept this as true, that means we have to accept that the alleged beating didn’t cause Zimmerman to shoot Martin. It was the alleged threat and grab. As compelling it is to talk endlessly about broken noses and lacerations, these injuries are besides the point. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8991 "2012-12-09T00:18:30Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > From: [Zimmerman’s Attorney Releases Statements to Police – NBC 6 South Florida](http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/OMara-Releases-Zimmermans-Statements--159844685.html) > > If we accept this as true, that means we have to accept that the alleged beating didn’t cause Zimmerman to shoot Martin. It was the alleged threat and grab. > > As compelling it is to talk endlessly about broken noses and lacerations, these injuries are besides the point. Wrong. If we accept it as true, that means he forgot he had the gun as the means of defending himself against the threat of death/great bodily harm until then. Not that there was no such threat. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8992 "2012-12-09T00:35:24Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > From: [Zimmerman’s Attorney Releases Statements to Police – NBC 6 South Florida](http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/OMara-Releases-Zimmermans-Statements--159844685.html) > > If we accept this as true, that means we have to accept that the alleged beating didn’t cause Zimmerman to shoot Martin. It was the alleged threat and grab. > > As compelling it is to talk endlessly about broken noses and lacerations, these injuries are besides the point. logically the injuries reinforce the point. When someone pummels another without any signs of ending and there is a struggle for a gun then the aggressor’s actions indicate imminent danger. You can choose to disbelieve Zimmerman’s statement that Martin threatened him at the start of the fight but the physical evidence indicates Martin intended serious harm to Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8993 "2012-12-09T00:35:42Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Wrong. If we accept it as true, that means he forgot he had the gun as the means of defending himself against the threat of death/great bodily harm until then. Not that there was no such threat. Doesn’t mean there was a threat either. Irrelevant either way. Zimmerman’s problem is that when he gets on a lying streak, he can’t stop and his mouth starts sabotaging his own case. If he hadn’t made up the whole bit about being smothered, he might just have been okay. But he screwed up with that. Not only did he disqualify himself as the screamer on that tape by saying that, but he fucked up his own claim about Martin threatening him. It’s comedy and tragedy all in one. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8994 "2012-12-09T00:38:03Z")
Just noticed. There are now 2 people from this thread who are banned. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8995 "2012-12-09T00:40:34Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Doesn’t mean there was a threat either. Irrelevant either way. > > Zimmerman’s problem is that when he gets on a lying streak, he can’t stop and his mouth starts sabotaging his own case. If he hadn’t made up the whole bit about being smothered, he might just have been okay. But he screwed up with that. Not only did he disqualify himself as the screamer on that tape by saying that, but he fucked up his own claim about Martin threatening him. It’s comedy and tragedy all in one. how did you possibly come up with this? Nowhere does Zimmerman suggest he was silenced by Martin trying to smother him. ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8996 "2012-12-09T02:05:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Just noticed. There are now 2 people from this thread who are banned. Rats One of them stated it was BS that the mail shed was enclosed, which is why I provided the link. I always thought something with a roof, windows, and siding wouldn’t qualify as being open to view. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8997 "2012-12-09T04:42:50Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The physical attack was not the reason that supposedly made Zimmmerman reach for his gun and pull the trigger, based on his written statement. > > He claimed Martin caught sight of his weapon and moved to grab it. He claimed that Martin also threatened him. It was only then, says Zimmerman, that he thought to defend himself with lethal force. He didn’t even know he had a gun until Martin reminded him he had it, remember? And what judge is going to believe _that_ shit? > > If what Zimmerman says is true about the threat, he would have had a valid claim for self-defense even if no physicial fight had occurred. Sure, we can fanwank a scenario in which he killed Martin because of the blows to his head, but that is not what Zimmerman says is what caused him to pull the trigger. This can’t be ignored just because he had some blood on his head, sorry. Why couldn’t a judge believe his statements made during the walk through? Why would a judge have to believe or disbelieve only Zimmerman’s written statement, and not treat the written statement as simply the part of his story that he was able to recall at that moment? If Zimmerman is found to have acted in self-defense at the SYG hearing, and consequently immune from both criminal and civil consequences, what will you say? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8998 "2012-12-09T14:36:06Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > Rats One of them stated it was BS that the mail shed was enclosed, which is why I provided the link. Who got banned? I think I was the one who called bullshit. But I don’t seem to be banned. At least not afaict. > [@hmarvin](#): > > I always thought something with a roof, windows, and siding wouldn’t qualify as being open to view. If it had walls, it’d be harder to see inside. If it had walls and a door, it’d be more like it was enclosed, imho. I have never sen any pictures of that shed with windows. The picture you posted shows an open access structure with a roof and some support columns. Do you have anything which actually makes that structure look enclosed? Also, have you found any evidence you’re willing to present which backs up the assertion that it’s quicker to enter the neighborhood from the south when travelling from the 7-11 which is to the northwest of the neighborhood? Cause I called bullshit on that one too. ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/8999 "2012-12-09T15:46:42Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Who got banned? > I think I was the one who called bullshit. But I don’t seem to be banned. At least not afaict. > > If it had walls, it’d be harder to see inside. If it had walls and a door, it’d be more like it was enclosed, imho. > > I have never sen any pictures of that shed with windows. > > The picture you posted shows an open access structure with a roof and some support columns. > > Do you have anything which actually makes that structure look enclosed? > > Also, have you found any evidence you’re willing to present which backs up the assertion that it’s quicker to enter the neighborhood from the south when travelling from the 7-11 which is to the northwest of the neighborhood? > Cause I called bullshit on that one too. If you have opera, or some other browser that allows magnification, go to the link i provided, you can see that it’s a window, with walls surrounding it. If Trayvon had gone east, than along RiverView Circle, it would have taken him quicker to Brandi’s front door, instead of a convoluted trip through the development.. .Not that it matters. The antiZimmerman on YouTube managed the trip from the 7-11 in 12 minutes. According to DD Trayvon ran because of the rain. Zimmerman phoned in forty minutes after Trayvon left the store. (time stamps) ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9000 "2012-12-09T16:01:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why couldn’t a judge believe his statements made during the walk through? Why would a judge have to believe or disbelieve only Zimmerman’s written statement, and not treat the written statement as simply the part of his story that he was able to recall at that moment? Have you looked at the reenactment? The video is consistent with his statement when it comes to that part. It was one of the few non-inconsistencies between the two stories. Him saying he forgot he had a gun until Martin threatened him is a detail he expresses during a taped interrogation. And it’s an explicit admission too. Why would the judge turn a blind eye to this? That would be akin to cherrypicking evidence. It’s an important nugget of information because (if we accept it as true) it effectively splits the whole encounter into two parts: The Scuffle and The Gun Grab. We have evidence for the former, but none for the latter, and its the latter that resulted in Martin being shot supposedly. > [@](#): > > If Zimmerman is found to have acted in self-defense at the SYG hearing, and consequently immune from both criminal and civil consequences, what will you say? Lol. I’ll ask why are you so invested in the words that come out of my keyboard? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9001 "2012-12-09T16:10:45Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > how did you possibly come up with this? Nowhere does Zimmerman suggest he was silenced by Martin trying to smother him. What? Have you read his written [statement](http://viewfromll2.com/2012/06/21/zimmermans-police-statements-are-not-consistent-with-established-facts/)? > [@Zimmerman](#): > > I tried to slide out from under the suspect and continue to yell “Help”.\*\* As I slid the suspect covered my mouth and nose and stopped my breathing. **At this point, I felt the suspect reach for my now exposed firearm and said “you gonna die tonight motha [fuckin’?].”** I unholstered my firearm in fear for my life as he had assured he was going to kill me \*\*and fired one shot into his torso. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2012, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9002 "2012-12-09T17:06:53Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > If you have opera, or some other browser that allows magnification, go to the link i provided, you can see that it’s a window, with walls surrounding it. Doesn’t look like that. > [@hmarvin](#): > > If Trayvon had gone east, than along RiverView Circle, it would have taken him quicker to Brandi’s front door, instead of a convoluted trip through the development. I don’t even see riverview circle. The path closest to a straight line involves the cut through between the houses on the western part of the circle and then following as best as possible the hypotenuse made by the northern and eastern sections of RVC. That approximation of the hypotenuse runs past the clubhouse, down twin trees. There’s no way to come into the neighborhood from the south without walking the legs of a triangle instead of it’s hypotenuse. The straight line from the northwest to the southeast is always going to be shorter than going east then south or going south then east. It’s geometry. > [@hmarvin](#): > > Not that it matters. The antiZimmerman on YouTube managed the trip from the 7-11 in 12 minutes. According to DD Trayvon ran because of the rain. Zimmerman phoned in forty minutes after Trayvon left the store. (time stamps) Even if you’re correct about the time stamps, I am not sure it matters one whit what M was doing during that time before he was spotted by Z. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=449) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=451)