# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 453
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9043 "2012-12-11T03:40:01Z")
I’m failing to see the problem here. ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9044 "2012-12-11T15:00:50Z")
Would Bricker like to comment on what Bernie Dela Rionda just stated at the hearing: “If it is George’s voice on the tape, it is the state’s position that it implicates him and it is not Brady material.” What the (censored) ? If Z is the one actually calling for help, it’s proof that he’s guilty and the state doesn’t have to turn anything over. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9045 "2012-12-11T15:32:25Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > Would Bricker like to comment on what Bernie Dela Rionda just stated at the hearing: “If it is George’s voice on the tape, it is the state’s position that it implicates him and it is not Brady material.” > > What the (censored) ? If Z is the one actually calling for help, it’s proof that he’s guilty and the state doesn’t have to turn anything over. So if it’s Zimmerman’s voice, it’s proof that Zimmerman’s guilty. If it’s Martin’s voice, it’s proof that Zimmerman’s guilty. This is getting Kafkaesque. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9046 "2012-12-11T15:35:31Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > Would Bricker like to comment on what Bernie Dela Rionda just stated at the hearing: “If it is George’s voice on the tape, it is the state’s position that it implicates him and it is not Brady material.” Where does this quote come from? Google comes up empty handed. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9047 "2012-12-11T16:18:14Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > Would Bricker like to comment on what Bernie Dela Rionda just stated at the hearing: “If it is George’s voice on the tape, it is the state’s position that it implicates him and it is not Brady material.” > > What the (censored) ? If Z is the one actually calling for help, it’s proof that he’s guilty and the state doesn’t have to turn anything over. I am not following the hearing, but my only comment is to say I don’t understand how Zimmerman’s voice calling for help implicates Zimmerman. As a judge, I would ask the state to explain that theory of the case in more detail. ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9048 "2012-12-11T16:33:14Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Where does this quote come from? > > Google comes up empty handed. ``` At today's hearing. By the way, the claim was made that Trayvon was actually six foot two inches, 170 pounds. From the 7-11 video, that could be about right. ``` . ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9049 "2012-12-11T16:43:58Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I only had a chance to review a few of your posts: > " Those struck you as indignant? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9050 "2012-12-11T17:50:38Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > Would Bricker like to comment on what Bernie Dela Rionda just stated at the hearing: “If it is George’s voice on the tape, it is the state’s position that it implicates him and it is not Brady material.” > > What the (censored) ? If Z is the one actually calling for help, it’s proof that he’s guilty and the state doesn’t have to turn anything over. You can hear multiple voices on that tape. Not just yelling. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9051 "2012-12-11T18:50:32Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > By the way, the claim was made that Trayvon was actually six foot two inches, 170 pounds. From the 7-11 video, that could be about right. Personally, I’d guess that the ME record is more than “about right.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9052 "2012-12-11T19:40:46Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > You can hear multiple voices on that tape. Not just yelling. IN what way, though, is he implicated? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9053 "2012-12-11T21:51:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Those struck you as indignant? So don’t want to discuss the facts of what you posted. You want to argue semantics. The actual posts so you as quite certain that she had evidence to back up the charge of 2nd degree murder. All the posts come April 12th. If you want to argue semantics, then you should dig through the rest of the April posts. The fact is that you didn’t think Corey would charge 2nd degree murder without evidence to back it up. ---
**Author:** ![Mgalindo13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea5d25/32.png) [@Mgalindo13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mgalindo13)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9054 "2012-12-11T22:07:53Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > So don’t want to discuss the facts of what you posted. You want to argue semantics. The actual posts so you as quite certain that she had evidence to back up the charge of 2nd degree murder. All the posts come April 12th. If you want to argue semantics, then you should dig through the rest of the April posts. > > The fact is that you didn’t think Corey would charge 2nd degree murder without evidence to back it up. Huh? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9055 "2012-12-11T22:33:10Z")
Yeah, double huh? 😕😕 I’m not seeing the issue. Most of the time Bricker has been pretty clear that he presumes they would not charge without sufficient evidence. So out of the dozen or so times he has stated this I don’t see the point in jumping him if he dropped the qualifier a time or two. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9056 "2012-12-11T22:47:03Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > Yeah, double huh? 😕😕 > > I’m not seeing the issue. Most of the time Bricker has been pretty clear that he presumes they would not charge without sufficient evidence. As more and more evidence is released, with little left out, and nothing to support the charge in it, I wonder if Bricker’s confidence in the prosecutors is starting to wilt. ---
**Author:** ![Mgalindo13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea5d25/32.png) [@Mgalindo13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mgalindo13)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9057 "2012-12-11T23:11:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > As more and more evidence is released, with little left out, and nothing to support the charge in it, I wonder if Bricker’s confidence in the prosecutors is starting to wilt. NOT speaking for Bricker, but I have maintained very much the same line of thinking. The prosecution likely has some evidence, not yet released, that contradicts Zimmerman’s account of the events to have charged him with murder. Based on the evidence publicly available there doesn’t seem to be enough to support the charge, and it makes no logical sense to charge him with insufficient evidence. That being said. I have no"confidence" in the prosecution. I have no stake in this case, and if it turns out there is no contradictory evidence I’m not going to be heartbroken. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9058 "2012-12-12T00:16:50Z")
> [@Mgalindo13](#): > > NOT speaking for Bricker, but I have maintained very much the same line of thinking. The prosecution likely has some evidence, not yet released, that contradicts Zimmerman’s account of the events to have charged him with murder. > > Based on the evidence publicly available there doesn’t seem to be enough to support the charge, and it makes no logical sense to charge him with insufficient evidence. > > That being said. I have no"confidence" in the prosecution. I have no stake in this case, and if it turns out there is no contradictory evidence I’m not going to be heartbroken. Well one would hope they have some evidence but if I remember correctly they alluded it was based on Dee Dee’s testimony. ---
**Author:** ![Mgalindo13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea5d25/32.png) [@Mgalindo13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mgalindo13)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9059 "2012-12-12T00:27:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Well one would hope they have some evidence but if I remember correctly they alluded it was based on Dee Dee’s testimony. Honestly, if that’s the case, I would be disappointed in the decision to prosecute. I make no assertion about what happened that night, or what Zimmerman’s motives actually were, but there is no publicly available evidence that supports a murder charge. Especially nothing that withstands the “reasonable doubt” standard. As a society we cannot allow that standard to be tarnished, even (read: especially) in cases where emotions run so high. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9060 "2012-12-12T00:38:13Z")
I’d be happy if the Prosecution would obey the law regarding discovery. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9061 "2012-12-12T01:28:19Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > So don’t want to discuss the facts of what you posted. You want to argue semantics. The actual posts so you as quite certain that she had evidence to back up the charge of 2nd degree murder. All the posts come April 12th. If you want to argue semantics, then you should dig through the rest of the April posts. > > The fact is that you didn’t think Corey would charge 2nd degree murder without evidence to back it up. Correct. And that’s still my opinion. It may turn out that I was mistaken, but I felt then, and feel now, that she must be aware of some other facts, not yet public, that support second-degree murder. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9062 "2012-12-12T02:05:02Z")
> [@Mgalindo13](#): > > NOT speaking for Bricker, but I have maintained very much the same line of thinking. The prosecution likely has some evidence, not yet released, that contradicts Zimmerman’s account of the events to have charged him with murder. > > Based on the evidence publicly available there doesn’t seem to be enough to support the charge, and it makes no logical sense to charge him with insufficient evidence. You do understand that according to Florida laws, all evidence prosecution has to be released to defense, and after that all evidence save phone records has to be released to the public. Thus unless Zimmerman sent a text saying “I shot him cuz he looked at me funny.”, the prosecution doesn’t have nearly enough. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=452) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=454)