# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 460
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9183 "2012-12-20T16:35:27Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Martin’s phone records say his last call started at 19:12 and lasted 4 minutes. Phone companies always round up, which means the call lasted for 3:01 to 4:00 The 911 call came in at 19:16:43. > > This implies that Martin knew Zimmerman was talking to the police and confronted him as soon as he hung up. It implies no such thing. First of all, 19:12 for the start of Martin’s call is prone to the same rounding problem as any other logged time. The call could have started anywhere between 19:12:00 and 19:12:59. If his call lasted 4 minutes, that means it ended within the window of 19:16:00 and 19:16:59. Keeping up so far? If the first 911 call started at 19:16:43 (and I don’t know that it did, just using the time you’ve posted) then it is highly probable Martin was on the phone with his gf when the fight started. Especially since the fight would have needed to have been in progress for some time before the witness correctly put two and two together and dialed 911. The more you push this as a issue, the more backpedaling you’re going to have to do with its finally demonstated satisfactorily to you that Zimmerman has no alibi for the 2 minutes he spent outside his truck. You said yourself that if the gap is 150 seconds, it leaves unanswered the question of why he didn’t make it to his truck. Don’t try to dismiss this conundrum as suddenly unimportant when you’re forced to accept the truth about the timeline, please. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9184 "2012-12-20T16:48:23Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Actually, if you study the record, There is actually 4 different people, with different EMPID and TERMID. It looks like Noffke is 107052 and TM21. 104137 and TM06 is the dispather. S25894 and 4027 is the officer T. Smith dispatched to the scene. I don’t who 108047 who made the entry on March 8th is. > > Some of the standard entries could be done with a single keystroke, so there may be multiple entries in one second. > > Here is a interview with Sean Noffke. > > [http://psc.apcointl.org/2012/06/14/telecommunicator-spotlight-sean-noffke-ready-for-anything/](http://psc.apcointl.org/2012/06/14/telecommunicator-spotlight-sean-noffke-ready-for-anything/) So someone with the same employee ID and RadioID as Noffke entered a remark with a description of TM into the record in the exact second that the call was taken before GZ even had a chance to get the words out of his mouth? Pehaps they have a “BM LATE TEENS LSW DARK GRAY HOODIE JEANS OR SEWATPANTS etc” hotkey and Noffke just _knew_ to hit that key because of a feeling in his bones. idk ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9185 "2012-12-20T16:55:37Z")
Here is a timeline of events from [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin). I don’t know where **Joel** got the 19:16:43 timestamp for the first 911 call. It’s 19:16:11 in all the sources I’ve seen, including this one. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9186 "2012-12-20T19:14:14Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > It implies no such thing. > > First of all, 19:12 for the start of Martin’s call is prone to the same rounding problem as any other logged time. The call could have started anywhere between 19:12:00 and 19:12:59. If his call lasted 4 minutes, that means it ended within the window of 19:16:00 and 19:16:59. You obviously don’t understand the salami slicing that business statements do. If the they were rounding the start time, they would round **down** to maximize the number of minutes they charge. I doubt they actually do double rounding. They would get sued if they got caught. They probably do the actual calculations in seconds and round up to the nearest minute. For someone like t-mobile, they would amount to millions of dollars a year or at least it did before unlimited accounts became commonplace. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9187 "2012-12-20T19:46:28Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > So someone with the same employee ID and RadioID as Noffke entered a remark with a description of TM into the record in the exact second that the call was taken before GZ even had a chance to get the words out of his mouth? > > Pehaps they have a “BM LATE TEENS LSW DARK GRAY HOODIE JEANS OR SEWATPANTS etc” hotkey and Noffke just _knew_ to hit that key because of a feeling in his bones. > > idk I think it is obvious that Noffke entered his id first and then started the 2nd entry That reported the details. The reporter writer printed them in reverse order since they had identical timestamps and it isn’t obviously which one If you read the article I referenced you would know he enters stuff very quickly. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9188 "2012-12-20T20:02:23Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I think it is obvious that Noffke entered his id first and then started the 2nd entry That reported the details. The reporter writer printed them in reverse order since they had identical timestamps and it isn’t obviously which one If you read the article I referenced you would know he enters stuff very quickly. And Noffke knew what GZ was going to say before GZ said it? That’s amazing. I don’t recall the times exactly, but I think that GZ takes more than (\<1) second to give the info to Noffke. So, even if Noffke has light-speed instantaneous typing skilz, it seems that there must be another super power at play to account for the prescience. Noffke entered the description of GZ at the very second that he took the call. Afaict, Noffke must have typed that out as he was answering the phone as his greeting takes about a second or so. mad skilz, yo. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9189 "2012-12-20T20:08:49Z")
[QUOTE=you with te is a timeline of events from [Wikipedia] ([Timeline of the killing of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin)). I don’t know where **Joel** got the 19:16:43 timestamp for the first 911 call. It’s 19:16:11 in all the sources I’ve seen, including this one. [/QUOTE] I got it directly from Serino’s report in discovery. As far as I know that is the most direct source, since report 20120571671 was never entered into discovery, although I found other references to it. I actually did a screen shot of that page, since it comes up so often. [https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bzn-XlBIM9nGTW9Mc1hLd2RDQlk/edit](https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bzn-XlBIM9nGTW9Mc1hLd2RDQlk/edit) My copy of the discovery is at: [https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bzn-XlBIM9nGenJvQ0lVdTUyR1E](https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bzn-XlBIM9nGenJvQ0lVdTUyR1E) The timeline is on page 40. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9190 "2012-12-20T20:19:00Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Here is a timeline of events from [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin). I don’t know where **Joel** got the 19:16:43 timestamp for the first 911 call. It’s 19:16:11 in all the sources I’ve seen, including this one. To be fair, Serino doesn’t seem to say that 19:16:43 is the first call. That may be Joel’s thing instead of Serino / Singleton. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9191 "2012-12-20T20:29:12Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > And Noffke knew what GZ was going to say before GZ said it? That’s amazing. > I don’t recall the times exactly, but I think that GZ takes more than (\<1) second to give the info to Noffke. So, even if Noffke has light-speed instantaneous typing skilz, it seems that there must be another super power at play to account for the prescience. Are you just being obnoxious? As I already explained the timestamp is when Noffke started entering the information. Noffke entered his login and then started another record and started taking Zimmerman’s info. That is why they have the same timestamp. If you don’t agree with me, then what is your Explanation for the duplicate timestamps. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9192 "2012-12-20T20:32:58Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > You obviously don’t understand the salami slicing that business statements do. If the they were rounding the start time, they would round **down** to maximize the number of minutes they charge. . Well duh. Of course. That explains why the log showing that Martin’s call started at 19:12:00 translates to a range between 19:12:00 and 19:12:59. A few posts ago you asserted that they round up, which doesnt even make intuitive sense let alone economic sense. I’m not the confused one here. Bottom line: even if Martin’s call lasted closer to 3 minutes than 4 (e.g., started at 19:12:59 and ended at 19:16:00), its still more probable than not that his call would have spilled over to his encounter with Zimmerman. You can’t argue otherwise unless you’re dying to look desperate. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9193 "2012-12-20T20:39:32Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I got it directly from Serino’s report in discovery. As far as I know that is the most direct source, since report 20120571671 was never entered into discovery, although I found other references to it. > I actually did a screen shot of that page, since it comes up so often. > > [https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bzn-XlBIM9nGTW9Mc1hLd2RDQlk/edit](https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bzn-XlBIM9nGTW9Mc1hLd2RDQlk/edit) Why are you assuming that is the first 911 call reported? The witness’s name had been redacted from that report, so there’s no way for us to know which 911 call he is talking about. It is not referred to as the first. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9194 "2012-12-20T20:45:26Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > … the timestamp is when Noffke started entering the information. The time stamps occurs when Noffke hits the any key and not when he saves an entry? > [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > That is why they have the same timestamp. If you don’t agree with me, then what is your Explanation for the duplicate timestamps. What needs to be explained? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9195 "2012-12-20T21:32:08Z")
Should we note that Serino’s report refers to event 2012571656 and the actual report in question has a different event number than that–20120571656? Why hasn’t Angela Corey come out and issued a correction? Obviously, the SCSO has screwed up again and mistakenly had their computer assign the wrong event number to the report. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9196 "2012-12-21T00:14:46Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Why are you assuming that is the first 911 call reported? The witness’s name had been redacted from that report, so there’s no way for us to know which 911 call he is talking about. It is not referred to as the first. Have you forgotten to take your meds again? You are making even less sense than usual. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9197 "2012-12-21T01:05:47Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Should we note that Serino’s report refers to event 2012571656 and the actual report in question has a different event number than that–20120571656? > > Why hasn’t Angela Corey come out and issued a correction? > > Obviously, the SCSO has screwed up again and mistakenly had their computer assign the wrong event number to the report. So they entered 57 instead of 057 and that is a deal breaker for you? It is obvious that 57 stands for Feb 26th. [http://amsu.cira.colostate.edu/julian.html](http://amsu.cira.colostate.edu/julian.html) This is obviously a typo and you have decided to be a jerk. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9198 "2012-12-21T02:58:43Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Have you forgotten to take your meds again? You are making even less sense than usual. You are the only person on the Internet who still questions the timeline. Get a clue, hon. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9199 "2012-12-21T04:00:05Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > You are the only person on the Internet who still questions the timeline. Get a clue, hon. You apparently don’t get out much . There are a lot of people on talkleft who accept Ellison’s timeline. BTW three posters on the SDMB is not the whole internet. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9200 "2012-12-21T04:19:43Z")
I was not being literal. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9201 "2012-12-21T11:13:06Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > So they entered 57 instead of 057 and that is a deal breaker for you? It is obvious that 57 stands for Feb 26th. > [http://amsu.cira.colostate.edu/julian.html](http://amsu.cira.colostate.edu/julian.html) > This is obviously a typo and you have decided to be a jerk. So cops make copying errors from time to time? I might have been making that point all along esp in re the times which were transcribed by Singleton. Or maybe you were right to resort to name calling. :shrug: But the question remains, why hasn’t Corey issued a correction? I mean that is a relevant question isn’t it? Or else why would you have asked it earlier about the other transcription error? ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9202 "2012-12-21T15:39:55Z")
Cops making copying errors from time to time - perish the thought. No, Joel wants us to believe that a) CAD terminals need IDs entered manually, b) don’t timestamp when information was entered, and c) allow data-entry dispatchers to go back in and manually alter the record. He clearly hasn’t the first clue how CAD terminals work. That said, it is amusing, seeing how many ridiculous and impossible scenarios he can come up with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=459) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=461)