# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 465
**Author:** ![Saraya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Saraya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saraya)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9283 "2013-01-18T10:52:13Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Inorite? > > Maybe that explains all the assertions that GZ is being prosecuted because of some conspiracy rather than for the simpler explanation that there’s reason to believe that GZ has done something wrong. > > They look at the official story that there’s good reason to prosecute GZ and then figure out how the official story is just a cover up, people trying to CYA, etc. What conspiracy exactly is on the bubble here? I could argue that Corey is using Zimmerman to advance her career. While it may not be true, it’s certainly not conspiracy as the concept is entirely plausible. She is after all a state prosecutor with a track record for aggressiveness. Conspiracy or not, bypassing the grand jury is inexcusable and only serves to suggest there wasn’t enough to make charges stick. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9284 "2013-01-18T11:12:41Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > While it may not be true, it’s certainly not conspiracy as the concept is entirely plausible. She is after all a state prosecutor with a track record for aggressiveness. I’m not even sure what this is supposed to mean. She’s a state prosecutor. By definition, she prosecutes. Your assertion is meaningless bluster unless you can provide cites for state prosecutors with a track record of passiveness. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9285 "2013-01-18T11:26:59Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > I could argue that Corey is using Zimmerman to advance her career. While it may not be true, it’s certainly not conspiracy as the concept is entirely plausible. She is after all a state prosecutor with a track record for aggressiveness. And the judge who accepted her affidavit? What about him? O’Mara must be in on the prosecution train too. Almost a year after the shooting, and the guy has yet to file a motion to have the charges dropped. This couldn’t possibly be because he knows the evidence against his client is too strong, right? No, the real reason must be that Corey stole his balls one night in his sleep and he’s too afraid of her to fight her. Yup. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9286 "2013-01-18T12:19:23Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > What conspiracy exactly is on the bubble here? I don’t know what that means. Like you, I was just talking about the people who keep referring to the “‘Holes’ in the ‘official story’”. The official story being that there’re grounds for prosecuting GZ. I am pretty sure that some of the people who doubt the official story have said things similar to “[if you] just look closely enough at all the news coverage and available information, you can see lies and contradictions in accounts of the event.” > [@Saraya](#): > > I could argue that Corey is using Zimmerman to advance her career. While it may not be true, it’s certainly not conspiracy as the concept is entirely plausible. I am not sure that conspiracy means what you think it means. Plausible and implausible things can be conspiracies. Conspiracy doesn’t refer to plausibility as I understand the word. It refers to the cooperation of two or more people in a generally clandestine manner. Conspiracy theories refer to theories that there’s an actual version of events which is not revealed to the general public which is different than the official version. They often assert that their pet theory is entirely plausible, or factual, or some similar thing. And, technically, many of them are actual possibilities. The assertion that Corey is acting alone is not a conspiracy theory in the strict sense in that there can be no conspiracy of one person–that’s just a spiracy w/ no con, right? ; ) But a number of the conspiracy theories I have seen asserted here and elsewhere involve others, like the FL governor being complicit. But if just limit the discussion to conspiracy theory style reasoning, then we can definitely include theories about Corey’s malfeasance being the actual basis for GZ’s prosecution rather than the official story which is that there are grounds for prosecuting GZ. So if you want to go there to the place where we cast aspersions on conspiracy theory style thinking, realize that we’re going to the place where we cast aspersion on the thinking that GZ is being prosecuted for reasons other than that there’re grounds for prosecuting him. IME, all conspiracy theorists always have a reason why their pet theory deserves actual consideration as opposed to the nutty conspiracy theories of others. So, if you want to open that can of worms, feel free. But that cookie crumbles on the side of the people who maintain that there’s not actually grounds for GZ to be prosecuted. So, w/e. :shrug: ---
**Author:** ![Saraya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Saraya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saraya)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9287 "2013-01-21T11:38:05Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > I’m not even sure what this is supposed to mean. She’s a state prosecutor. By definition, she prosecutes. > Your assertion is meaningless bluster unless you can provide cites for state prosecutors with a track record of passiveness. > [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > And the judge who accepted her affidavit? What about him? > O’Mara must be in on the prosecution train too. Almost a year after the shooting, and the guy has yet to file a motion to have the charges dropped. This couldn’t possibly be because he knows the evidence against his client is too strong, right? No, the real reason must be that Corey stole his balls one night in his sleep and he’s too afraid of her to fight her. Yup. > [@PatriotX](#): > > I don’t know what that means. > > Like you, I was just talking about the people who keep referring to the “‘Holes’ in the ‘official story’”. The official story being that there’re grounds for prosecuting GZ. > > I am pretty sure that some of the people who doubt the official story have said things similar to “[if you] just look closely enough at all the news coverage and available information, you can see lies and contradictions in accounts of the event.” > > I am not sure that conspiracy means what you think it means. Plausible and implausible things can be conspiracies. Conspiracy doesn’t refer to plausibility as I understand the word. It refers to the cooperation of two or more people in a generally clandestine manner. > > Conspiracy theories refer to theories that there’s an actual version of events which is not revealed to the general public which is different than the official version. They often assert that their pet theory is entirely plausible, or factual, or some similar thing. And, technically, many of them are actual possibilities. > > The assertion that Corey is acting alone is not a conspiracy theory in the strict sense in that there can be no conspiracy of one person–that’s just a spiracy w/ no con, right? ; ) > > But a number of the conspiracy theories I have seen asserted here and elsewhere involve others, like the FL governor being complicit. > > But if just limit the discussion to conspiracy theory style reasoning, then we can definitely include theories about Corey’s malfeasance being the actual basis for GZ’s prosecution rather than the official story which is that there are grounds for prosecuting GZ. > > So if you want to go there to the place where we cast aspersions on conspiracy theory style thinking, realize that we’re going to the place where we cast aspersion on the thinking that GZ is being prosecuted for reasons other than that there’re grounds for prosecuting him. > > IME, all conspiracy theorists always have a reason why their pet theory deserves actual consideration as opposed to the nutty conspiracy theories of others. > > So, if you want to open that can of worms, feel free. But that cookie crumbles on the side of the people who maintain that there’s not actually grounds for GZ to be prosecuted. > > So, w/e. > :shrug: I believe what just happened to you three is ..how do the kids say, ‘trolling’ ? Though appreciate the response Patriot. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9288 "2013-01-21T12:57:28Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > I believe what just happened to you three is ..how do the kids say, ‘trolling’ ? … 😕 If what happened to them was trolling then who’s the troll? A heads up, ya might want to check the board’s rules about accusations of trolling and admitting you’re engaging in it. CMC ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9289 "2013-01-21T18:06:56Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > I believe what just happened to you three is ..how do the kids say, ‘trolling’ ? > Though appreciate the response Patriot. So, you’re telling us that you were engaging in prohibited behavior? ummm… Not sure where to go with that w/o playing junior mod. If you accuse yourself of trolling, is that two violations–one for the trolling and one for the accusation? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9290 "2013-01-22T00:15:06Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > I believe what just happened to you three is ..how do the kids say, ‘trolling’ ? > > Though appreciate the response Patriot. Just so you know, it’s against the rules to accuse others of trolling or call them a troll in this forum, although you are free to do so in the BBQ Pit. Don’t do this again in In My Humble Opinion, though. Idle Thoughts IMHO mod ---
**Author:** ![Redbrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Redbrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redbrow)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9291 "2013-01-31T23:19:15Z")
Interesting news regarding Martin’s phone records. The prosecution has unlocked more information from the phone than previously admitted. It even includes location data to within ten feet. One small problem - the data from the night of the incident is conspicuously absent from discovery. > [@](#): > > [O’Mara: State has unlocked a trove of info from Trayvon’s cell phone](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-trayvon-cell-phone-new-tests-20130131,0,4945051.story) > New court paperwork reveals that prosecutors have unlocked a great deal more information from Trayvon Martin’s cell phone, including satellite tracking information that shows where it was in the days leading up to his shooting. > > But if it also lays out the teenager’s movements on Feb. 26 — the day Trayvon was shot and killed by George Zimmerman — prosecutors have not released that to defense attorneys. > > Defense attorney Mark O’Mara disclosed that information Wednesday in a new court filing, one asking for more time to prepare for trial. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9292 "2013-01-31T23:31:42Z")
> [@Redbrow](#): > > Interesting news regarding Martin’s phone records. The prosecution has unlocked more information from the phone than previously admitted. It even includes location data to within ten feet. One small problem - the data from the night of the incident is conspicuously absent from discovery. I’m sure the prosecution has a valid reason for not releasing the information regarding the events of the case that would show Martin’s location. It takes time to make up stuff to fit evidence. ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9293 "2013-02-16T18:30:39Z")
> [@Redbrow](#): > > Interesting news regarding Martin’s phone records. The prosecution has unlocked more information from the phone than previously admitted. It even includes location data to within ten feet. One small problem - the data from the night of the incident is conspicuously absent from discovery. To speculate, I wouldn’t be surprised if Trayvon didn’t walk to the 7-11, but hitched a ride instead. I base this on the 7-11 video. Despite the rain, and I assume it was raining on his half mile journey to the store, if he walked, Trayvon’s clothes appear to be dry, except for his pants cuffs, which show moisture, as if he stepped in a puddle. There’s a 7-11 camera pointed at the parking lot which turned up blank in evidence discovery, the camera at Kohl’s, just across the north entrance to the townhouses also turned up blank, around the time of the incident. DD’s phone records, which would show if they match Trayvon’s, are conspiciously absent. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9294 "2013-02-17T16:04:14Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > O’Mara must be in on the prosecution train too. Almost a year after the shooting, and the guy has yet to file a motion to have the charges dropped. What do you mean, “…a motion to have the charges dropped?” What are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9295 "2013-02-17T18:49:15Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > To speculate, I wouldn’t be surprised if Trayvon didn’t walk to the 7-11, but hitched a ride instead. I base this on the 7-11 video. Despite the rain, and I assume it was raining on his half mile journey to the store, if he walked, Trayvon’s clothes appear to be dry, except for his pants cuffs, which show moisture, as if he stepped in a puddle. There’s a 7-11 camera pointed at the parking lot which turned up blank in evidence discovery, the camera at Kohl’s, just across the north entrance to the townhouses also turned up blank, around the time of the incident. DD’s phone records, which would show if they match Trayvon’s, are conspiciously absent. If he was driven they would have taken him to his house or at least to the gate area. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9296 "2013-02-19T13:06:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If he was driven they would have taken him to his house or at least to the gate area. Not necessarily. “We’re going to XYZ, you coming along”? “Nah, I’m heading back home, and my girl called. I’ll walk home. Later guys” ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9297 "2013-02-19T21:43:49Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > It’s possible he heard his voice. The guy was on the phone, remember? If he heard someone carrying on a conversation somewhere in the area, that might have led him to believe it was Martin. > > It’s also possible that Zimmerman was walking down RCV (or even the dog path) while talking to the dispatcher. We have no reason to believe he ever stopped pursuing Martin, his claims notwithstanding. > > There was no point in him getting out of his truck to look for street sign in the middle of the street, either. You believe that, right? The dispatcher had stated, twice mind you, to keep an eye on Martin, which is likely why Zimmerman got out of the truck. He didn’t get out of the truck to look for a street sign. At that point, he probably hadn’t even thought of looking for a street sign. (Zimmerman was also already out of his truck when she told him we don’t want you to do that, so he couldn’t have ‘obeyed’ even that.) ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9298 "2013-02-19T21:51:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If he was driven they would have taken him to his house or at least to the gate area. Maybe they did. It doesn’t take 40 minutes to cover the distance from the 7-11. If you remember, before they changed their story, both Trayvon’s father and Tracy’s girl friend stated that Trayvon was sitting on the back patio before the shooting. (video still available at youtube). There never was an explanation from them why they changed their story. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9299 "2013-02-21T15:20:04Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > [GZ] didn’t get out of the truck to look for a street sign. At that point, he probably hadn’t even thought of looking for a street sign. Your explanation about why GZ exited his vehicle doesn’t jibe with GZ’s explanation about why he got out of his vehicle. GZ states that he got out to look for a street sign in the middle of the block [instead of at an intersection where street signs normally reside]. ---
**Author:** ![Saraya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Saraya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saraya)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9300 "2013-02-23T20:39:47Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Your explanation about why GZ exited his vehicle doesn’t jibe with GZ’s explanation about why he got out of his vehicle. > GZ states that he got out to look for a street sign in the middle of the block [instead of at an intersection where street signs normally reside]. Not convinced that the reason he left his vehicle would ultimately be relevant. He could say ‘I left the truck so I could find that stupid kid and stop him’ but unless they can show he actually found the kid, then we’re back to square one - especially considering it leans more towards the kid finding him. I saw the update last night - [FOX 35 Orlando | Local News, Weather, and Live Streams | WOFL](http://www.myfoxorlando.com/story/21305598/2013/02/22/witness-8-george-zimmerman-trial-key-deposition-sought-in-trayvon-martin-case) :sigh: I can’t read anything about this judge without thinking of Breakfast Club. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9301 "2013-02-24T15:09:06Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > Not convinced that the reason he left his vehicle would ultimately be relevant. > He could say ‘I left the truck so I could find that stupid kid and stop him’ but unless they can show he actually found the kid, then we’re back to square one - especially considering it leans more towards the kid finding him. The only significance I know of which can be attached to the reasons he provided for leaving his vehicle is that the reasons tend to show that GZ is making shit up. It’s just another one of the things which indicates that GZ has fabricated and redacted parts of his stories. Personally, I find it implausible that an adult with a driver’s license would think that there would be a street sign where there is no intersection. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9302 "2013-02-25T06:03:09Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > The only significance I know of which can be attached to the reasons he provided for leaving his vehicle is that the reasons tend to show that GZ is making shit up. > It’s just another one of the things which indicates that GZ has fabricated and redacted parts of his stories. > Personally, I find it implausible that an adult with a driver’s license would think that there would be a street sign where there is no intersection. He lived on the street he was walking to. He didn’t need a street sign. He walked over to it looking for a house number. This has been explained to you repeatedly. It is a fabrication on your part. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=464) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=466)