# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/921 "2012-04-25T20:06:30Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > So would you agree that it would be quite foolish for Zimmerman to immediately give a statement to police if he intentionally killed Martin? Especially since he was a Criminal Justice Major and only a few hours from his degree from what I read. I checked the requirements at Seminole State College: > > [http://www.seminolestate.edu/criminal-justice/college-credit/asdegree/crim-as.php](http://www.seminolestate.edu/criminal-justice/college-credit/asdegree/crim-as.php) > > Some of the electives might be useful also: > > Introduction to Murder - CCJ1629 > Introduction to CSI - CJE1640 I agree it was probably foolish, but a great many people do similar foolish things, even police officers and lawyers. So I wouldn’t for a second infer that he did anything particularly differently because he was a criminal justice major. Even one a few hours away from his degree. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/922 "2012-04-25T20:08:01Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Oh, right. But still. I don’t know what physical evidence would show as a result, or what would need to be reconciled with the condition of their clothes and/or the autopsy results if that had indeed happened. None at all, most likely. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/923 "2012-04-25T20:12:24Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Its disingenuous to insist on saying Zimmerman’s statement isn’t contradicted by anything that we know about, when the specifics that led to Zimmerman’s arrest have been withheld from the public pending the trial. What would a better thing to say be? “Zimmerman’s statement is definitely contradicted by either the physical evidence or something else.” “How do you know?” “Because the evidence has been withheld from the public!” No, I don’t agree that works at all. As with any claim, the person making the positive assertion needs to provide evidence for their view; the person denying the positive claim need not present any evidence of their own. In other words, the person with the positive assertion bears the burden of production of proof. It’s better to clearly lay out the full sentence: Zimmerman’s statement isn’t contradicted by anything that we know about. Maybe better still to say: Zimmerman’s statement isn’t contradicted by anything that we know about, but of course all the evidence isn’t out yet. Hmmm. That line sounds real familiar. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/924 "2012-04-25T20:14:37Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > There is definitely an incentive not to be very specific and NOT to volunteer for five hours of interrogation when you’re lying your head off. When you have no idea what witnesses saw, the best thing to do is to shut up, lawyer up, and work on the story later. > > Zimmerman voluntarily going to the police station and talking to the police for five hours without a lawyer present may be incredibly stupid, from a lawyer’s point of view, but IMO is an indication of him not thinking he was guilty and trying to clear things up with the police. No. This is precisely what the vast majority of my former clients, who were themselves basically guilty as hell, thought to themselves. “If I go down and talk to them voluntarily, they’ll think I have nothing to hide! I am a mastermind!” There is almost nothing worthwhile to be concluded from the fact that he voluntarily talked to police. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/925 "2012-04-25T20:15:44Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I can’t find a cite right now, so let me rephrase my statement to: “It’s also disingenuous to say he didn’t talk to a lawyer, if he spoke with his father.” Why? Is his father a lawyer? ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/926 "2012-04-25T20:24:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I agree it was probably foolish, but a great many people do similar foolish things, even police officers and lawyers. So I wouldn’t for a second infer that he did anything particularly differently because he was a criminal justice major. Even one a few hours away from his degree. Of course you wouldn’t. You wouldn’t infer that if O’Steen had evidence that that proved 2nd degree murder against Zimmerman he would mention it to Gilbreath. It is quite admirable. A “house is white on this side”, kind of statement. The point about lawyers is quite apt. Even lawyers need to know when to lawyer up. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/927 "2012-04-25T20:39:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What would a better thing to say be? Depends on the context. If I say something like, “The idea that Zimmerman reached for his phone rings as false to me. So too does the idea that Martin would just flip out on him without cause.” And someone responds back with “It might ring false to ya, but nothing Zimmerman has said is contradicted by anything that we know about. So there!” I’m calling that disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/928 "2012-04-25T20:43:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why? Is his father a lawyer? You already know his dad is retired judge, so why are you asking me this? ---
**Author:** ![Bambro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df705f/32.png) [@Bambro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambro)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/929 "2012-04-25T20:53:33Z")
/facepalm ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/930 "2012-04-25T21:03:46Z")
Psst. He was a magistrate. Job requirements: high school diploma. That’s life in America’s Wang. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/931 "2012-04-25T21:11:05Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > You already know his dad is retired judge, so why are you asking me this? Because his dad was a retired **Magistrate** , not a **Judge**. Here is a document explaining magistrates. [http://www.bvso.net/Documents/The%20Office%20of%20The%20Virginia%20Magistrate.pdf](http://www.bvso.net/Documents/The%20Office%20of%20The%20Virginia%20Magistrate.pdf) > [@](#): > > Magistrates will try to assist you by providing general information, but **they are generally not attorneys** and cannot give legal advice. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/932 "2012-04-25T21:12:41Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > Psst. He was a magistrate. Job requirements: high school diploma. Judge, magistrate. He still would be familiar with the law and the legal process. Zimmerman might not have contacted a lawyer that night because he trusted his father to tell him what to do. Does anyone have a cite that Robert Zimmerman only has a high school diploma? I work with folks who have doctorates, but their jobs actually only require masters degrees. Requirements for a job aren’t synonymous with a person’s credentials. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/933 "2012-04-25T21:17:59Z")
Interesting quote in this [Reuters article](http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425): > [@](#): > > Though civil rights demonstrators have argued Zimmerman should not have prejudged Martin, one black neighbor of the Zimmermans said recent history should be taken into account. > > “Let’s talk about the elephant in the room. I’m black, OK?” the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. “There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood,” she said. “That’s why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin.” ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/934 "2012-04-25T21:26:51Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Interesting quote in this [Reuters article](http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425): An interesting article. Certainly contrary to the “racist profiler” meme. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/935 "2012-04-25T21:30:01Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Do you have a cite for that. I’ve read that his family was waiting at the police station, but not that he talked to his father. It would be rather difficult for him to call his father since his was handcuffed. They would have took his phone as evidence in any case. If you look closely at the alleged photo of Zimmerman’s bloody head, he appears to be talking on a cell phone. The photo:[http://cdn.hiphopstan.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/George-Zimmerman-Bloody-Head.jpg](http://cdn.hiphopstan.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/George-Zimmerman-Bloody-Head.jpg) The photo brightened: [http://i44.tinypic.com/34gq70y.jpg](http://i44.tinypic.com/34gq70y.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/936 "2012-04-25T22:07:50Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Depends on the context. > > If I say something like, “The idea that Zimmerman reached for his phone rings as false to me. So too does the idea that Martin would just flip out on him without cause.” > > And someone responds back with “It might ring false to ya, but nothing Zimmerman has said is contradicted by anything that we know about. So there!” > > I’m calling that disingenuous. It’s not disingenuous, it’s absolutely correct. What is wrong is the idea that his statement “rings false” to you is relevant. You don’t like it. Tough. Prove him wrong. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/937 "2012-04-25T22:16:03Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Judge, magistrate. He still would be familiar with the law and the legal process. Zimmerman might not have contacted a lawyer that night because he trusted his father to tell him what to do. Yes, but so is George Zimmerman. Remember Criminal Justice Major? If Robert Zimmerman isn’t a member of the Florida bar, then he can’t be in the interrogation room with George. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/938 "2012-04-25T22:52:07Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > It’s not disingenuous, it’s absolutely correct. What is wrong is the idea that his statement “rings false” to you is relevant. You don’t like it. Tough. Prove him wrong. Just asking questions is OK when some people do it, dontcha know. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/939 "2012-04-25T22:53:13Z")
> [@newme](#): > > If you look closely at the alleged photo of Zimmerman’s bloody head, he appears to be talking on a cell phone. > > The photo:[http://cdn.hiphopstan.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/George-Zimmerman-Bloody-Head.jpg](http://cdn.hiphopstan.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/George-Zimmerman-Bloody-Head.jpg) > The photo brightened: [http://i44.tinypic.com/34gq70y.jpg](http://i44.tinypic.com/34gq70y.jpg) It was taken with an iPhone 4S. Whoever took it didn’t remove the metadata. I assume we will be seeing it in court. If Zimmerman doesn’t remember who took the picture, then O’Mara can get a court order for a list of all the 4S owners in the neighborhood. Is that a cell phone by his right ear? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/940 "2012-04-25T22:53:36Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > You already know his dad is retired judge, so why are you asking me this? Because you seem to be confusing a magistrate with a judge. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=48)