# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125>\
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion\
**Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 487

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**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\
**Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9723 "2013-04-12T20:09:15Z")

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> [@Lumpy](#):
>
> Either that or given Florida’s Stand Your Ground law and the presumption of innocence, there shouldn’t have been enough evidence to bring Zimmerman to trial in the first place (the prosecutor didn’t even try to present the case to a grand jury). So since the trial is hinging on suspicion and judgments of character, that can of worms has already been opened. If the settlement includes language that neither side is claiming or admitting guilt, then the Martins evidently decided they wanted gold more than justice, which sort of tarnishes their public expositions of grief and anger.

You’re full of it. You think the Martins want money more than they want justice or their son? What about that clown Zimmerman who has been soliciting donations on the Internet? If anything, i think the Martins have been restrained in their response, much more than I would’ve given them credit for initially.

Let me be clear. If Zimmerman’s defense is going to wholly or partially depend on diminishing or denigrating the Martins, he will lose. The jury doesn’t want to hear about the money that the Martins received just as they don’t want to hear about Zimmerman attempting to con the State of Florida of his donations. The jury wants to hear what happened that night and the HMA crap is so peripheral that it has nothing to do with the case and sheds no light on either Trayvon or Zimmerman’s behavior that night.

There’s no way you can look at ANY [interview](http://www.wtsp.com/video/1525659229001/1/Interview-with-Trayvon-Martins-parents) with the Martins and come to the conclusion that they’re just in it for the money. Although it makes me racist to say it, I must emphatically say it again: white people, on average, can’t differentiate bullshit from the truth, which is why many of you are looking at the Martins with (unwarranted) suspicion.

- Honesty

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**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\
**Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9724 "2013-04-12T20:32:12Z")

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Well, I’m white, and I agree with most of what you say, so I don’t know where you’re getting this “whitey don’t know shit,” shit.

Or am I like honorary black or something?

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**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\
**Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9725 "2013-04-12T20:53:05Z")

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> [@Honesty](#):
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > He’s more concerned in diminishing the legitimacy of the victim (martin, and by extension, his parents) than he is in uplifting his own defense and **disprove the prosecutor’s claims to the contrary**.
> 
> Hopefully, that’s a bit better.

I need hardly point out that no, it isn’t.

Regards,  
Shodan

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**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\
**Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9726 "2013-04-12T22:33:06Z")

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Apparently, there’s an eight page criminal report from the Record Management System of Miami-Dade County, sealed at the present time, eight pages long, on Trayvon Martin, which the defense now has in it’s possesion. What it means, since it’s sealed, and if it can come into trial, is for legal minds to ponder. Though it does appear Trayvon has a criminal record of some significence, likely not just misdemeanors.

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**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\
**Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9727 "2013-04-12T23:12:49Z")

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> [@Honesty](#):
>
> Magiver, you can call me a racist all day long.
> 
> - Honesty

No, just when you make racist statements. Which you did.

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**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\
**Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9728 "2013-04-12T23:22:58Z")

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> [@Honesty](#):
>
> Guess the whole trial and jury thing is just a formality, eh?
> 
> - Honesty

It’s called innocent until proven guilty. Otherwise it’s just a mob of people who know what other people are thinking based on the color of their skin.

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**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\
**Post date:** [April 12, 2013, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9729 "2013-04-12T23:54:11Z")

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> [@Evil\_Economist](#):
>
> Wait, even \*accusing \*someone of murder is equivalent to lynching them? Wow, a prosecutors’ job is more difficult than I’d realized.
> 
> Question: if I only suspect that someone may be guilty, but don’t accuse them, is that equivalent to masturbating on them and then setting them on fire?

I see you didn’t bother to quote me accurately, as I referred to accusing someone _without evidence_. Either you are doing that here, or you have evidence that Zimmerman wasn’t acting in self defence.

To answer your question, if you suspect someone of murder, you should contact the police. The same thing, incidentally, as you should do if you see someone acting suspiciously in your neighbourhood, or if you are scared by someone following you.

The police should then look for evidence, and if sufficient is found, the suspect should be arrested and charged. This, unfortunately, is not the procedure that has been followed in this case, where at all levels speculation and prejudgment of guilt has been rampant.

So, I’ll ask you a question. What evidence are you relying on to make your judgement that Zimmerman was not acting in self defence when he shot Martin?

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**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9730 "2013-04-13T00:24:00Z")

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> [@Honesty](#):
>
> There’s no way you can look at ANY [interview](http://www.wtsp.com/video/1525659229001/1/Interview-with-Trayvon-Martins-parents) with the Martins and come to the conclusion that they’re just in it for the money. Although it makes me racist to say it, I must emphatically say it again: white people, on average, can’t differentiate bullshit from the truth, which is why many of you are looking at the Martins with (unwarranted) suspicion.
> 
> - Honesty

There is a way you can come to the conclusion that his mother didn’t know her son.

[quote:]  
([U.S. News: Latest Breaking Stories, Video, and Photos on American Politics, Economy, and Society | NBC News](http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/26/10872124-trayvon-martin-was-suspended-three-times-from-school?lite))Martin’s mother, Sybrina Fulton, suggested in comments at a news conference that the marijuana residue report was aimed at smearing her dead child.

“They killed my son and now they’re trying to kill his reputation,” she said.

She made this statement before the forensic evidence showed it in his system.

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**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9731 "2013-04-13T16:01:34Z")

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> [@Magiver](#):
>
> There is a way you can come to the conclusion that his mother didn’t know her son.
> 
> [quote:]  
> ([U.S. News: Latest Breaking Stories, Video, and Photos on American Politics, Economy, and Society | NBC News](http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/26/10872124-trayvon-martin-was-suspended-three-times-from-school?lite))Martin’s mother, Sybrina Fulton, suggested in comments at a news conference that the marijuana residue report was aimed at smearing her dead child.
> 
> “They killed my son and now they’re trying to kill his reputation,” she said.
> 
> She made this statement before the forensic evidence showed it in his system.

Not valid, the amount that was found in his sytem ( \< 5 ng/ml of THC) was clinically insignificant. I could take a bong hit and blow it in your face and you’ll have that amount in your body. It won’t stick in court and no doctor worth his salt will tell any jury that having \< 5 nanograms of THC in serum is indicative of chronic marijuana use or any inebriation during the altercation. The only thing you can say is that, in the past week, Trayvon was exposed to marijuana. That’s it.

Though, if we want to talk about drugs, let’s not go into Zimmerman’s long list of anti-depressants, uppers, downers, and atypical antipsychotics he was (and likely still is) being prescribed. Once Zimmerman’s psychiatric file flayed open for us to see, we’ll get a chance to see how much his shit stinks. Though we can for sure that for your nose, Zimmerman’s shit doesn’t stink, but instead, smells like glorious roses dripping with sweet, morning drew.  
Like I said before, your bullshit meter is malfunctioning if you think the Martins want nothing more than justice for their son. Where’s their website? Where’s their public begging for donations? Where’s their webpage denigrating Zimmerman? I encourage you to watch Pamela Meyer, [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_6vDLq64gE), she’s a white woman who can smell bullshit. Listen to her, as perhaps, she could put in a way that you can understand that I cannot. After you finish, re-watch an interview with the Martins and tell me with a straight face they’re not grieving parents who want nothing but justice for their dead, minor child.

- Honesty

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**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9732 "2013-04-13T16:03:54Z")

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> [@hmarvin](#):
>
> Apparently, there’s an eight page criminal report from the Record Management System of Miami-Dade County, sealed at the present time, eight pages long, on Trayvon Martin, which the defense now has in it’s possesion. What it means, since it’s sealed, and if it can come into trial, is for legal minds to ponder. Though it does appear Trayvon has a criminal record of some significence, likely not just misdemeanors.

Yeah, I saw it, Trayvon was jailed for beating his girlfriend, fighting with the police, and molesting his cousin. He has a criminal record, now what does that mean about what happened that night?

- Honesty

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**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9733 "2013-04-13T16:12:16Z")

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> [@Jack\_Batty](#):
>
> Well, I’m white, and I agree with most of what you say, so I don’t know where you’re getting this “whitey don’t know shit,” shit.
> 
> Or am I like honorary black or something?

Diamond in a rough, perhaps? There’s a few white people who can smell it,[Pamela Meyer](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_6vDLq64gE), Bill Maher, Judge Judy, and Bill Clinton. I’m sure there are more who can smell it but I’m convinced their numbers are far and few in-between. There are a host of studies showing that people who come from disadvantaged backgrounds tend to be better at reading facial cues, interpreting body language, and generally able to gauge truthfulness of an individual just by looking at them. I think that this is an innate mechanism, an intrinsic piece of “lie detector” software embedded in our brains that white people, on average, have lost to the annals of time. It’s precisely the reason why they look at the Martins and claim the family aren’t concerned with justice for their dead son, the part of the brain that says “this is truth” is non-existent, malfunctioning, or was never fully developed in the first place.

- Honesty

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**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9734 "2013-04-13T16:29:11Z")

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Speaking of Bill Maher, here’s his take on George Zimmerman, [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzdXcjM1F6c). Like I said, some of us can smell bullshit (Bill Maher) and others (Magiver) cannot.

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**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9735 "2013-04-13T16:51:14Z")

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I have to say, hearing a racist saying _white_ people’s brains aren’t properly developed is a new one. It’s just as laughably wrong as when people say it about black people, though. We can smell the bullshit, and it’s from people like you who say that Zimmerman murdered Martin, even though you have not one shred of evidence that he wasn’t acting in self defence.

Quite frankly, I don’t give a shit about the motivations of the Martin family, and don’t see that it has any relevance to the case. For that matter, I’m not sure what relevance the fact that Zimmerman was on medication has. You think him trying to treat his illness is a _bad_ thing? I guess we can add prejudice against the mentally ill to the list of your character flaws.

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**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9736 "2013-04-13T17:09:50Z")

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> [@Honesty](#):
>
> Yeah, I saw it, Trayvon was jailed for beating his girlfriend, fighting with the police, and molesting his cousin. He has a criminal record, now what does that mean about what happened that night?
> 
> - Honesty

Poor impulse control and anger management issues? As in someone prone to getting violent with people he felt had “disrespected” him?

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**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9737 "2013-04-13T17:28:10Z")

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Since I’m at the library, I can’t give you a link, try cases number 1A#12-001, 002, 003, 005, and 006. Trayvon Martin. Scribd has the documents. You won’t learn much since the documents are sealed, but Trayvon apparently has a history of getting into trouble. It appears that he was part of an intervention program, instigated by the State of Florida, as an alternative to jail or prison.

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**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9738 "2013-04-13T17:52:10Z")

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> [@Steophan](#):
>
> You think him trying to treat his illness is a _bad_ thing? I guess we can add prejudice against the mentally ill to the list of your character flaws.

You clearly must’ve been living under a rock for the last year, as there’s been a national push to take guns out of the hands of the mentally ill. It’s not about prejudice, it’s about ensuring that those who do have access to firearms, are individuals that have their wits about them. To give a gun to someone who was involved in domestic violence, a criminal record, suffers from depression and ADHD is like handing a kid a loaded gun. IMO, any diagnoses of ADD or ADHD should disqualify individuals from purchasing guns. If you don’t have impulse control, you don’t need a gun.

- Honesty

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**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9739 "2013-04-13T17:53:34Z")

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> [@Lumpy](#):
>
> Poor impulse control and anger management issues? As in someone prone to getting violent with people he felt had “disrespected” him?

1. Whoosh.

2. Such a determination should be done by a mental health professional or records thereof.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9740 "2013-04-13T18:02:38Z")

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> [@Honesty](#):
>
> You clearly must’ve been living under a rock for the last year, as there’s been a national push to take guns out of the hands of the mentally ill. It’s not about prejudice, it’s about ensuring that those who do have access to firearms, are individuals that have their wits about them. To give a gun to someone who was involved in domestic violence, a criminal record, suffers from depression and ADHD is like handing a kid a loaded gun. IMO, any diagnoses of ADD or ADHD should disqualify individuals from purchasing guns. If you don’t have impulse control, you don’t need a gun.
> 
> - Honesty

Yep, and denying the mentally ill their rights is fucking disgraceful. Being mentally ill doesn’t mean you don’t “have your wits about you”, and attitudes like yours just make it harder for people to seek help when they need it. Not to mention that they are more likely to be victims of violence, so trying to prevent them having the means to defend themselves is disgusting.

Also, please cite that Zimmerman has a criminal record, as I’ve seen nothing to suggest he has one.

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**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9741 "2013-04-13T18:19:35Z")

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> [@Steophan](#):
>
> I have to say, hearing a racist saying _white_ people’s brains aren’t properly developed is a new one.

I know, right? Here’s another from the racist extraordinaire: The rate of autism is extraordinarily low in minorities (blacks and hispanics) and, if you look at the brains of autistic white children, what do you see? You see an atrophy of neural regions that are involved in social reasoning and a rerouting of those neurons to other parts of the brain like verbal reasoning or object recognition. Do you know where you find the highest rate of new autistic cases? Silicon Valley. It would seem, as luck would have it, that mating two really smart white people yields, more likely than black or hispanic parents, a child that’s really smart and intelligent but with less social reasoning than their parents. Hitler would be proud. His prototypical uebermensch is nothing more than blond-haired, blue-eyed autistic that has the math acuity of Einstein and the verbal reasoning of Frost but the social maturity of an adolescent.

- Honesty

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\
**Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9742 "2013-04-13T18:19:49Z")

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> [@Steophan](#):
>
> I see you didn’t bother to quote me accurately, as I referred to accusing someone _without evidence_. Either you are doing that here, or you have evidence that Zimmerman wasn’t acting in self defence.

I’m pretty sure I quoted your entire paragraph without any edits at all. In fact, I just checked, and I did. No need to apologize for your false accusations, I forgive you, even though your false accusation was equivalent to lynching me.

In terms of evidence, what sort of evidence do we need before we can start suspecting someone of murder? A body? A murder weapon? A murder charge?

> [@](#):
>
> To answer your question, if you suspect someone of murder, you should contact the police. The same thing, incidentally, as you should do if you see someone acting suspiciously in your neighbourhood, or if you are scared by someone following you.

Yeah, those sounds like things you \*should \*do. On the \*should \*scale, where do you rank stalking the suspected (but innocent!) perp in the dark while carrying a loaded weapon, getting out of your car to confront him, and then shooting him to death?

> [@](#):
>
> So, I’ll ask you a question. What evidence are you relying on to make your judgement that Zimmerman was not acting in self defence when he shot Martin?

Gosh, yes, let me spell it out again. Because you clearly paid so much attention the last hundred times I spelled it out. Perhaps 101 is the magic number?

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