# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 489
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9763 "2013-04-14T17:55:56Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Indeed, I do. When I watched the interview with Zimmerman and Hannity, my bullshit meter went off the charts. I’m not the only one. People here have said it including political commentators like Bill Maher. Your honor, the prosecution would like to admit a TV show comedian as a witness. His abilities to smell things has been verified by a black person who as we all know have this ability so there is no need to swear him in. He watched another TV show with Zimmerman on it as prep work for his own show so we feel he’s best qualified to make this determination. > [@Honesty](#): > > It grieves me that you and other people cannot see the bullshit when it’s right in front of you. In order to go from Point A to Point B, you need empirical evidence at each and every step, unwilling or unable to use insight or common sense. Mr Maher briefly heard the accused speak and determined it is bullshit so we move that all the other evidence be stricken from the record as lies told or physically planted on behalf of the accused. > [@Honesty](#): > > The reason I think you lack insight or “powers of deduction” is likely because you’ve endured as much strife and adversity as the Romneys. Let me guess: white, grew up with two parents in household, 50k+ a year, have very few minority friends, private schooling, and your childhood was marked by [concerted cultivation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concerted_cultivation)? Don’t worry, I’m not psychic, it’s call it insight. The reason I think you lack the powers of deduction is because you use racist opinion instead of fact to draw a conclusion. My insight is based on evidence. Yours is based on how you feel and you’ve demonstrated an extreme level of racism toward other groups. I’m not worried that you’re psychic, I’m worried you might some day be on a jury. ---
**Author:** ![Saraya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Saraya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saraya)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9764 "2013-04-14T18:35:10Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Earlier, \*\*Saraya \*\*and \*\*Lumpy \*\*made some disgusting, ignorant, classless racist statements, that revealed their true (lack of) character. > > In the time since they made those comments, not a single of the other “pro-Zimmerman” posters has bothered to condemn or refute those contemptible racist comments. > > Instead, we have posters like **Magiver** chatting away with them as though nothing nasty was said. I guess a certain subset of society lacks the self-respect to denounce scum. By an odd coincidence, those same posters think Zimmerman lacks moral culpability in the shooting death of a black teenager. Wow, I rarely get to use that old saying ‘pot calling kettle _black_’ (see what I did there..come on admit it, you laughed just a little), but man, you sure are a winner today. I didn’t think Trevor Dooley deserved manslaughter. Yet then again I was seeing it from a law stand point, not a racial one. Interesting how the majority of people who define themselves by their race and constantly have race on the tip of their tongue, are the ones in fact who are racist (in all forms of the word) and are holding society back. A page later and we’re still off topic. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9765 "2013-04-14T22:54:19Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Your honor, the prosecution would like to admit a TV show comedian as a witness. His abilities to smell things has been verified by a black person who as we all know have this ability so there is no need to swear him in. He watched another TV show with Zimmerman on it as prep work for his own show so we feel he’s best qualified to make this determination. **Magiver** , I understand that this isn’t a court of law. This is a message board that’s called on the Internet in a topic called ‘IMHO’ and I’m giving sharing opinion based on the available evidence. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9766 "2013-04-14T22:57:42Z")
> [@Saraya](#): > > A page later and we’re still off topic. Am I missing something? What’s the topic of this thread? - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9767 "2013-04-14T23:13:38Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > By the way, **Steophan** , you lied repeatedly, were caught by me, and lacked the character to admit your lies. I am not in the least surprised that you also lack the character to condemn \*\*Saraya \*\*and **Lumpy**. Nope. You misquoted me and misrepresented my posts, and continued to do so when I called you out on it. You even quoted the post where you lied about what I said. I will condemn the people who I see lying and ignoring the evidence to try to claim someone is a murderer in defiance of the fact. > [@Honesty](#): > > **Magiver** , I understand that this isn’t a court of law. This is a message board that’s called on the Internet in a topic called ‘IMHO’ and I’m giving sharing opinion based on the available evidence. > > - Honesty You are not sharing any opinion based on evidence. You’ve been repeatedly shown that your opinion is incompatible with the available evidence, and, when challenged, refused to provide any extra evidence you may have found that would justify your opinion. You also claim that white people are mentally deficient, and that poor or oppressed people can magically determine the truth of things without evidence. Now, it may be that you believe Zimmerman is lying, and it may even be that you are justified in that belief. That doesn’t give you the right to claim anything as fact about what happened that evening unless you have some evidence. That Zimmerman is lying is, quite literally, evidence of nothing. All it allows for is that, if his story contradicts some other evidence, you may believe that other evidence. Sadly for you, such other evidence that he was not acting in self defence does not, as far as the public knows, exist. The fact that, when challenged on this, you and others resort to racist abuse and outright claims of lying rather than presenting the evidence, proves that you have nothing to support your opinion. An opinion unbacked by evidence, knowledge, and understanding is worthless, no matter what the subject. When the opinion is that someone is guilty of a crime and that they should be punished despite that lack of evidence, knowledge, and understanding of the law or of morality, it goes beyond worthless and becomes both dangerous and disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9768 "2013-04-15T05:20:47Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > In the time since they made those comments, not a single of the other “pro-Zimmerman” posters has bothered to condemn or refute those contemptible racist comments. You truly can’t understand that there is no pro-Zimmerman position. There is only an evidence position. And the evidence overwhelmingly supports Zimmerman’s account of what happened. There is nothing iron clad about it but as it stands now, even if Zimmerman kicked Martin in the nuts while yelling “die nigger die” he still isn’t guilty of 2nd degree murder. But since we know from someone friendly to Martin that nothing like this was said that leaves us with a serious beating by Martin against Zimmerman. That’s the whole case right there. And by all the evidence it appears Martin went out of his way to confront Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9769 "2013-04-15T05:25:03Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > **Magiver** , I understand that this isn’t a court of law. This is a message board that’s called on the Internet in a topic called ‘IMHO’ and I’m giving sharing opinion based on the available evidence. > > - Honesty Your opinion is based on your gut feeling and that’s not evidence. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9770 "2013-04-15T13:21:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You truly can’t understand that there is no pro-Zimmerman position. lol. There certainly is. You have outlined it below. > [@Magiver](#): > > [That] the evidence overwhelmingly supports Zimmerman’s account of what happened. …is the “pro-Zimmerman position.” :shrug: ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9771 "2013-04-15T14:25:40Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Your opinion is based on your gut feeling and that’s not evidence. Not precisely. It’s based upon his interview with Hannity (bullshit meter off charts), his previous criminal record, and his multiple lies to multiple people and entities including the State of Florida. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9772 "2013-04-15T14:30:10Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Earlier, \*\*Saraya \*\*and \*\*Lumpy \*\*made some disgusting, ignorant, classless racist statements, that revealed their true (lack of) character. > > In the time since they made those comments, not a single of the other “pro-Zimmerman” posters has bothered to condemn or refute those contemptible racist comments. > > Instead, we have posters like **Magiver** chatting away with them as though nothing nasty was said. I guess a certain subset of society lacks the self-respect to denounce scum. By an odd coincidence, those same posters think Zimmerman lacks moral culpability in the shooting death of a black teenager. > > Someone once said “sports don’t build character, they reveal it.” I think the same could be said of internet comments. > > By the way, **Steophan** , you lied repeatedly, were caught by me, and lacked the character to admit your lies. I am not in the least surprised that you also lack the character to condemn \*\*Saraya \*\*and **Lumpy**. It is because Magiver feels that only anti-white sentiments are racist statements. I can say, “white people can’t smell bullshit” and that’s so racist he wilts like a flower. On the other hand, Lumpy and Saraya have said some pretty far-out shit and he hasn’t batted an eyelash. It goes to show you that Magiver, perhaps not white people, can’t smell bullshit or chooses not to even when it’s right in front of him. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![DrumBum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e79b87/32.png) [@DrumBum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrumBum)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9773 "2013-04-15T16:01:38Z")
Just when I thought things could not get any more crazy we have this [dingdong](http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/14/us/florida-trayvon-martin-targets/index.html?hpt=hp_t2). > [@](#): > > The Florida police sergeant fired for possessing shooting targets resembling Trayvon Martin defended himself Sunday and said the targets were meant to be used as training aids for “no-shoot” situations. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9774 "2013-04-15T16:25:29Z")
> [@DrumBum](#): > > Just when I thought things could not get any more crazy we have this [dingdong](http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/14/us/florida-trayvon-martin-targets/index.html?hpt=hp_t2). It might surprise **Honesty** to know that I detect a hint of bullshit there. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9775 "2013-04-15T17:00:40Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > lol. > There certainly is. You have outlined it below. > …is the “pro-Zimmerman position.” > > :shrug: The evidence supports him. I have no feelings about him. I could care less. If you look at my first posts my gut feeling was against him based on how it was presented in the news. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9776 "2013-04-15T17:03:55Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > It is because Magiver feels that only anti-white sentiments are racist statements. > > - Honesty You didn’t post a sentiment, you posted outright racist bullshit. It’s moronic to say you think he’s lying when presented with evidence to the contrary. It’s racist to suggest a demographic group can’t detect bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Saraya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Saraya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saraya)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9777 "2013-04-15T18:27:11Z")
> [@DrumBum](#): > > Just when I thought things could not get any more crazy we have this [dingdong](http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/14/us/florida-trayvon-martin-targets/index.html?hpt=hp_t2). I don’t see why he was fired? Who cares what the pictures were of Tasteless maybe?; worth a man losing his job, an arms instructor none the less? ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9778 "2013-04-15T20:45:49Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Indeed, I do. When I watched the interview with Zimmerman and Hannity, my bullshit meter went off the charts. I’m not the only one. People here have said it including political commentators like Bill Maher. It grieves me that you and other people cannot see the bullshit when it’s right in front of you. In order to go from Point A to Point B, you need empirical evidence at each and every step, unwilling or unable to use insight or common sense. I also encourage you to pick up _Blink_ by Malcolm Gladwell, it’s an excellent read and the book touches on a lot of what we’ve been discussing here. > > The reason I think you lack insight or “powers of deduction” is likely because you’ve endured as much strife and adversity as the Romneys. Let me guess: white, grew up with two parents in household, 50k+ a year, have very few minority friends, private schooling, and your childhood was marked by [concerted cultivation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concerted_cultivation)? Don’t worry, I’m not psychic, it’s call it insight. > > Moving on… > > Just a few posts ago, someone claimed Judge Judy was one of the 110 people messing up America. Who says that unless they’re completely irrational OR unable to see the truth when its right in front of them. I think it’s the latter, which is why I must emphatically say again that white people cannot differentiate the truth from a lie, to save their lives. If you need any proof of this fact, take a look at how long this thread is. Hundreds upon hundreds of posts and still 95% you think Trayvon was a gangster thug who is a troublemaker and a thief despite there being NO evidence of that; on the flip side, 95% of you hand-wave Zimmerman’s criminal record, his beating on his wife, his bullying of colleagues, his molestation of his cousin, his prescription of uppers, downers, and antipsychotics, his lying to the State of Florida regarding his donations, his shoving of a police officer, pimping the Internet for donations, his poor grades (he got D’s) in criminal justice classes, and so on. If ANY of these were true for Trayvon, this thread would’ve died months ago.Zimmerman is a fake, a liar, and a narcissist. It’s clear as day, and if you can’t see it, I’m convinced you never will. > > White people don’t say anything about Zimmerman’s bullshit because they don’t smell it, instead, they focus their attention to smelling Trayvon’s shit (which exist, for sure, but certainly not on the scale or stink of Zimmerman’s) or, worse, maligning his parents as greedy or profiteering. > > - Honesty If I may jump in here. I’m mostly Native American, grew up on a farm in ND, tending a father dying of cancer, and thus poor at the time. Apparently my nose is white. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9779 "2013-04-15T21:41:58Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > If I may jump in here. I’m mostly Native American, grew up on a farm in ND, tending a father dying of cancer, and thus poor at the time. Apparently my nose is white. I’m sorry to hear this. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9780 "2013-04-15T23:31:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You didn’t post a sentiment, you posted outright racist bullshit. It’s moronic to say you think he’s lying when presented with evidence to the contrary. It’s racist to suggest a demographic group can’t detect bullshit. **Evil Economist** remarked that “not a single of the other “pro-Zimmerman” posters has bothered to condemn or refute those contemptible racist comments.”\*\* I\*\* replied that you, **Magiver** , are only bothered by “anti-white sentiments” and that you would ignore the bullshit from other pro-Zimmerman posters. So what did you do? You post the above, stating that it’s racist to accuse a demographic group of being naive, completely ignoring (again, for the umpteenth time) the racist statements by pro-Zimmerman supporters here. Do you see what I’m getting it, **Magiver**? You smell the bullshit you want to smell (my claim) while blissfully ignoring the bullshit you don’t want to smell (other poster’s racist shit). It’s hypocrisy on a small scale, but hypocrisy nonetheless, and you’re unwittingly proving me right at every roadbend. When I began on a racist tirade about whites and autism, **monstro** called it like it is: wrongness. Have you done that with the pro-Zimmerman posters here in response to their comments? If so, can you post the #'s where you put the pro-Zimmerman crowd to task for their racism? Thanks - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9781 "2013-04-15T23:48:41Z")
Why don’t you, rather than simply claiming that certain posters are racist without showing why you think that, actually explain why? Possibly we are missing something. However, if you simply make unsubstantiated clai s without evidence, we’ll simply think you’re full of shit. Same as about the case this thread’s about. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2013, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9782 "2013-04-16T00:51:13Z")
**Mod Note** Let’s keep this thread - and the language we use in it - suitable to IMHO. - Gukumatz, IMHO Moderator [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=488) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=490)