# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 495
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9883 "2013-04-26T16:23:20Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > So, the wise course of action would be to make sure no one knew you were alone with the Michael Myers-esque supervillain that Martin has now become? Why is calling the police an insane, provacative thing to do around a suspected burgler, but shouting for help isn’t, when they amount to the same thing? Because if the guy is scary enough to warrant calling the police, he’s scary enough to TRY AND STOP YOU FROM CALLING THE POLICE. Sure, screaming poses the same risk, but it’s immediate - a bunch of houses are RIGHT THERE. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > Still waiting on that evidence that Zimmerman tried to restrain Martin, by the way. You mean besides the dead body? ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9884 "2013-04-26T16:25:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Why should a fully grown man fear Martin? Had he not been sucker punched he should have been able to take care of himself. > > he wasn’t following him for a quarter mile. it was 200 feet. Is there some reason why you can’t state the facts without embellishment. > > I provided a simple statement Zimmerman could have made to direct the police to him. Care to address that or are you just going to run your mouth? It’s about a quarter of a mile from 1450 Retreat View Circle where Zimmerman first spotted him up through the cut-through where the Martin’s body was. ‘Sucker punched’? Martin was standing right in front of him. How could he possibly be sucker punched? If Martin was going to sucker punch him, it’s too bad he didn’t have the chance to sneak up behind George unseen…oh, wait… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9885 "2013-04-26T16:31:52Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > So in your little corner of the universe, Martin asking the guy who’s been stalking him for a quarter of a mile, first in his truck then on foot, ‘why are you following me’ is ‘behaving in an unexpectedly violent manner’? Only if he punches him in the face, breaks his nose, blackens his eyes, and then sits on his chest bashing his head against the ground. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9886 "2013-04-26T16:36:58Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Because if the guy is scary enough to warrant calling the police, he’s scary enough to TRY AND STOP YOU FROM CALLING THE POLICE. Sure, screaming poses the same risk, but it’s immediate - a bunch of houses are RIGHT THERE. That doesn’t follow at all. You don’t just call the police on scary people, you call them about suspicious people. And Martin was much more suspicious than he was scary. Let’s see: screaming is risky, calling the police is risky, drawing a pistol is illegal, running is risky (you’re turning your back, and the other guy is probably faster in this case, being taller and lighter). So, what risk-free action should Zimmerman have taken, again? > [@DragonAsh](#): > > You mean besides the dead body? That’s evidence that Zimmerman shot Martin. Any evidence that Zimmerman tried to restrain Martin? ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9887 "2013-04-26T19:57:35Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The better question to ask is why wouldn’t a reasonable person first try to flee from the type of person that would prompt them to call the police. > > You might be a little right if cops appeared instaneously as soon as a phone was whipped out. In the real world, though, it doesn’t work like that. So we have to believe that Zimmerman, standing face-to-face with a suspect criminal, _in almost complete darkness_, thought it would be a good idea to make a telephone call instead of high tailing it to his truck, locking the doors, and then calling the cops. > > Since his alleged behavior defies instinct and common sense, at a minimum, it is reasonable to believe that this claim is a lie. Why would he lie about this? It is reasonable to believe that he lied because the truth hurts his case. What detail, if true, could possibly hurt his case? That he pulled out his gun, not his phone. > > Pulling out his gun makes a lot more sense than pulling out his phone. Zimmerman likely couldn’t flee. He was obese, and suffering from sacroillitis, inflammation of the lower joints, for which he was on medication. Besides, even the most nimble of people wouldn’t have had time to flee when someone unexpectedly walks up to you. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9888 "2013-04-26T20:33:18Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > Zimmerman likely couldn’t flee. He was obese, and suffering from sacroillitis, inflammation of the lower joints, for which he was on medication. Besides, even the most nimble of people wouldn’t have had time to flee when someone unexpectedly walks up to you. Zimmerman had no reason to flee. A normal teen ager does not react to being asked ‘what are you doing’ by trying to kill someone. Martin apparently did. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2013, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9889 "2013-04-26T22:58:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Zimmerman had no reason to flee. A normal teen ager does not react to being asked ‘what are you doing’ by trying to kill someone. Martin apparently did. > > Regards, > Shodan I agree. The most likely reason that Trayvon tried to kill George is because he didn’t want any witness who could identify him. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9890 "2013-04-27T04:52:03Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > It’s about a quarter of a mile from 1450 Retreat View Circle where Zimmerman first spotted him up through the cut-through where the Martin’s body was. No, it’s not. It’s 850 feet. He didn’t follow him until Martin left the mail box area. That would be 350 feet from there to the start of the fight which is coincidentally the same distance Martin had to travel back from his house to confront Zimmerman. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > ‘Sucker punched’? Martin was standing right in front of him. How could he possibly be sucker punched? If Martin was going to sucker punch him, it’s too bad he didn’t have the chance to sneak up behind George unseen…oh, wait… A sucker punch is an unexpected punch. ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9891 "2013-04-27T22:26:04Z")
Omara has filed a motion asking for Trayvon’s phone records, obviously to determine if it matches the cut and pasted version that’s been seen on the internet. Why such a simple request is so difficult for the prosecutor to provide is open to debate. You show DD’s phone records for the appropriate period, and Trayvon’s. There shouldn’t be a problem if they match. If they don’t match, DD lied, that’s all there is to it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9892 "2013-04-28T03:58:10Z")
Why should Omara have to ask the Prosecutor. Can’t the defense go directly to any police agency and request they gather them from the phone company? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2013, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9893 "2013-04-28T13:28:10Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > Omara has filed a motion asking for Trayvon’s phone records, obviously to determine if it matches the cut and pasted version that’s been seen on the internet. For the second time, I’m asking you to cite this. The defense received Martin’s phone records a while ago, so they are wasting the court’s time if this motion actually exists. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9894 "2013-04-28T14:58:08Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > I agree. The most likely reason that Trayvon tried to kill George is because he didn’t want any witness who could identify him. Because TM didn’t want there to be any witnesses to TM doing what exactly? What do you believe TM was doing which justified murder in TM’s mind? What was TM trying to cover up? Imho, the idea sounds most bizarre rather than “most likely”. Obviously, ymmv. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9895 "2013-04-28T15:05:26Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Zimmerman had no reason to flee. A normal teen ager does not react to being asked ‘what are you doing’ by trying to kill someone. Martin apparently did. > > Regards, > Shodan With his bare hands, no less. I wonder did he unfurl his claws and bare his fangs before he lunged. Oops, my bad, humans don’t have claws or fangs. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9896 "2013-04-28T15:51:51Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > With his bare hands, no less. Yes, with his bare hands. We have the evidence of what he did with them. You can do a lot of damage after a sucker punch. I’ve experienced exactly what Zimmerman experienced from punks. The only difference is that the sucker punch didn’t land as intended and I was able to deal with it with minimal personal injury. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9897 "2013-04-28T15:56:12Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > For the second time, I’m asking you to cite this. The defense received Martin’s phone records a while ago, so they are wasting the court’s time if this motion actually exists. How hard is it to type" trayvon martin, phone records"? [Cite](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-01-31/news/os-trayvon-cell-phone-new-tests-20130131_1_trayvon-martin-mark-o-mara-assistant-state-attorney-bernie) Sanford police and Florida Department of Law Enforcement employees had limited success finding out what was on the phone because they were “locked out,” the consequence of someone trying repeatedly without the proper password or PIN to gain access to its data. The state then shipped the phone to a law-enforcement agency in California for more analysis, O’Mara wrote in his new motion, then sent it to a New Jersey company, which successfully unlocked the data in its flash memory, including GPS information that showed its changing locations. What it found has not been made public. “It shows you within 10 feet where the phone is,” O’Mara told the Orlando Sentinel. De la Rionda provided those new findings to defense attorneys Jan. 18, O’Mara wrote, but with a gaping hole. \*\* “While the analysis includes GPS locating records for Mr. Martin’s phone for all of the time he was in the Sanford area, specifically absent is any such data from February 26, 2012, the date of the event,” O’Mara wrote.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9898 "2013-04-28T16:04:54Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > Because TM didn’t want there to be any witnesses to TM doing what exactly? > What do you believe TM was doing which justified murder in TM’s mind? > What was TM trying to cover up? > > Imho, the idea sounds most bizarre rather than “most likely”. > Obviously, ymmv. What was TM doing? Beating the fuck out Zimmerman. We don’t know what was going on in his mind but his actions were that of a violent person intent on doing great harm. So I’m going with violent rage. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9899 "2013-04-28T16:04:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes, with his bare hands. We have the evidence of what he did with them. You can do a lot of damage after a sucker punch. Can a person do a lot of damage with his bare hands but not damage them in the process? Is it possible to grab the sides of a person’s head (not by the hair, but by the actual head) and slam that person’s head on concrete hard and long enough to render that person semi-conscious, but NOT take away any substantial scrapes or bruises your hands in the process? Is it possible to do all of this and not take away a single drop of DNA? I wonder how in the world the defense will be able to explain all of this. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9900 "2013-04-28T16:19:12Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Can a person do a lot of damage with his bare hands but not damage them in the process? > > Is it possible to grab the sides of a person’s head (not by the hair, but by the actual head) and slam that person’s head on concrete hard and long enough to render that person semi-conscious, but NOT take away any substantial scrapes or bruises your hands in the process? > > Is it possible to do all of this and not take away a single drop of DNA? > > I wonder how in the world the defense will be able to explain all of this. Yes, no explanation beyond the physical evidence is needed. This isn’t a TV crime show where every blade of grass was examined. The DNA argument presupposes that they went looking for it in the first place. There is sufficient evidence to show that Martin was on top of Zimmerman assaulting him. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9901 "2013-04-28T16:24:30Z")
Monstro, you appear to be looking for reasons to convict Zimmerman instead of looking at the evidence available. There needs to be some definitive evidence like a video that shows Zimmerman assaulting Martin first or pulling a gun on him from the outset. It could have happened this way but so could a lot of other scenarios. I don’t understand why people ignore the fact that Martin moved from an unseen location near his house to where Zimmerman was over a distance of 300 feet. Martin goes out of his way to confront Zimmerman. When you combine this with the beating there is something going on in Martin’s head and it’s violent. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/9902 "2013-04-28T16:26:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How hard is it to type" trayvon martin, phone records"? How hard it is to just provide a damn cite the first time it was asked for? On Tuesday, the judge will be ruling on all the recent motions. In keeping with the defense counsel’s track record since this trial began, I expect them to hear nothing but “denied”, “denied”, “denied”. Their latest claim–that the state has withheld phone data from them–smacks of the same kind of precious bullshit they used the [last](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/05/george-zimmerman-lawyer-trayvon-photo-release) time they falsely accused the state of withholding evidence. Just like last time, this accusation will go no where. Claims like this make for good copy in the press, and good copy is the only card the defense has to play right now. They have nothing to lose, as O’Mara’s reputation is pretty much sewage. Tall hat, no cattle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=494) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=496)