# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 54
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1061 "2012-04-27T00:13:04Z")
The mock trial thread is somewhat interesting but I’d rather see a mock pre-trial hearing thread with **Bricker** as the judge. Aren’t we getting ahead of ourselves even discussing trial possibilities? I would like to hear a scenario in which the prosecution can move the case against Zimmerman forward. The only way I see that happening is evidence that seriously contradicts Zimmerman’s account thus exposing him as a liar or a credible witness whose testimony accomplishes the same thing. Considering Florida law, I see Zimmerman walking free after the judge dismisses the case. Sucks, but it appears inevitable. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1062 "2012-04-27T00:14:44Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Not at all. I think it would be a stunning feat to convince anyone that the voice IS Zimmerman. Nothing about it suggests that in the slightest way. And nothing about it suggests a big football player overpowering a poor defenseless (except for that loaded gun, of course) ex-bouncer with a rage problem and a history of violence. He doesn’t have a rage problem or a history of violence as far as the jury knows. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1063 "2012-04-27T00:19:54Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I ALREADY KNOW THAT. > > Really, no, I dont’ have the strength to do this anymore. We are not communicating in the same language. I’m using clear English. Perhaps you should stop letting your prejudices get in the way of your reading comprehension, stop pretending that this case is “obviously murder”, and actually think about what it will take to obtain a conviction. Or, you know, you could keep posting in ALL CAPS that you ALREADY KNOW something that would CONTRADICT SEVERAL OF YOUR PREVIOUS POSTS. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1064 "2012-04-27T00:30:36Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > The mock trial thread is somewhat interesting but I’d rather see a mock pre-trial hearing thread with **Bricker** as the judge. Aren’t we getting ahead of ourselves even discussing trial possibilities? I would like to hear a scenario in which the prosecution can move the case against Zimmerman forward. The only way I see that happening is evidence that seriously contradicts Zimmerman’s account thus exposing him as a liar or a credible witness whose testimony accomplishes the same thing. > > Considering Florida law, I see Zimmerman walking free after the judge dismisses the case. Sucks, but it appears inevitable. I’d be willing, but only if we have a mock pre-hearing conference with whoever is going to serve as mock counsel. This won’t work if we have vastly different understandings about how to do this. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1065 "2012-04-27T00:45:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > He doesn’t have a rage problem or a history of violence as far as the jury knows. That was just for the hey. They dont’ need to know any of that to know that the voice doesn’t match his story. > [@Steophan](#): > > I’m using clear English. What you’re using vs. what you’re understanding are different. We are not communicating. I do not wish to continue trying. No harm, no foul, just not interested. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1066 "2012-04-27T02:33:30Z")
[http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/26/attorney-says-zimmerman-had-200g-from-web-donations/](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/26/attorney-says-zimmerman-had-200g-from-web-donations/) Apparently the Zimmerman web site managed to raise 200k before it was shut down. I guess he can reimburse his parents for his bond. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1067 "2012-04-27T03:12:14Z")
Why was it shut down? There’s no law against asking people for money…? ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1068 "2012-04-27T03:19:46Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Because they have nothing to lose by charging him with 2nd degree. If they fail to convince the jury it was murder, the jury can still convict him of manslaughter. Why does the 2nd degree charge require the state to show that the scream was Trayvon’s? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1069 "2012-04-27T07:56:35Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > [http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/26/attorney-says-zimmerman-had-200g-from-web-donations/](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/26/attorney-says-zimmerman-had-200g-from-web-donations/) > > Apparently the Zimmerman web site managed to raise 200k before it was shut down. > > I guess he can reimburse his parents for his bond. This wasn’t disclosed at the bond hearing where Zimmerman claimed indigence. The judge might not be too happy about that. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1070 "2012-04-27T08:57:00Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > … \< sobs on bricker’s shoulder\> … As someone who’s heard the jury instruction on _premeditation_ in more jurisdictions than I’d care to count (around two decades of jury duty . . . watching real live criminal trials on [del]TruTV[/del] Court TV) I’d like to join the weeping circle. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1071 "2012-04-27T10:01:35Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > Why does the 2nd degree charge require the state to show that the scream was Trayvon’s? It doesn’t. The scream theory is just one way they could conceivably make the case for murder. There may be other ways. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1072 "2012-04-27T12:52:35Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > This wasn’t disclosed at the bond hearing where Zimmerman claimed indigence. The judge might not be too happy about that. They are going to having a hearing at 9 where O’Mara will disclose that to the judge. [http://www.wftv.com/s/watchlive/](http://www.wftv.com/s/watchlive/) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1073 "2012-04-27T13:21:57Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Why was it shut down? There’s no law against asking people for money…? Two reasons: one is that there’s no appropriate accountability for the funds. That can lead to situations just like this one: “No, Judge, my client doesn’t have any money.” Second: registering an official entity allows you to go after and shut down unofficial competing sites. And there’s a PR aspect as well. I think enough comments were made about the original site, with the flag waving and supposedly genuine comments from “George” that no defense attorney wants his client associated with that…er… approach. I commend George’s family and friends on their desire to help, but desire does not translate into useful ability. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1074 "2012-04-27T13:24:53Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > This wasn’t disclosed at the bond hearing where Zimmerman claimed indigence. The judge might not be too happy about that. He may not be, but I suspect it won’t be a big deal. O’'Mara discloses it the moment he becomes aware of it and it’s possible that even Zimmerman himself wasn’t aware of the amount during the bond hearing – after all, he had been in custody with no access to a computer for a period prior to that point. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1075 "2012-04-27T14:03:58Z")
It doesn’t look like the media will be barred from accessing the discovery evidence at this time. Concerns about protecting witness names and addresses seemed perfectly legitimate to me under the circumstances. I seem to recall that the judge expressed some concern about witness statements to the media. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1076 "2012-04-27T15:38:38Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > This wasn’t disclosed at the bond hearing where Zimmerman claimed indigence. The judge might not be too happy about that. [According to Florida law](http://law.justia.com/codes/florida/2005/TitleXLVI/ch0837.html): > [@](#): > > 837.02 Perjury in official proceedings.– > (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), whoever makes a false statement, which he or she does not believe to be true, under oath in an official proceeding in regard to any material matter, commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. The punishment provided for a felony of the third degree[is](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0775/0775.html): > [@Florida Law Chapter 775 section 82](#): > > (d) For a felony of the third degree, by a term of imprisonment not exceeding 5 years. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1077 "2012-04-27T17:12:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > He may not be, but I suspect it won’t be a big deal. O’'Mara discloses it the moment he becomes aware of it and it’s possible that even Zimmerman himself wasn’t aware of the amount during the bond hearing – after all, he had been in custody with no access to a computer for a period prior to that point. I can believe that O’Mara wasn’t informed but Zimmerman had to know. The site was set up by “family members” so his lack of computer access isn’t relevant. But perhaps they didn’t mention it to him, after all it’s just $204,000. Not really noteworthy. I read somewhere that the 200k was accrued from checks sent by 50 donors. Anyone know if that is accurate? It suggests one or two major donors. Perhaps the Koch brothers or the NRA. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1078 "2012-04-27T18:09:00Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > I can believe that O’Mara wasn’t informed but Zimmerman had to know. The site was set up by “family members” so his lack of computer access isn’t relevant. But perhaps they didn’t mention it to him, after all it’s just $204,000. Not really noteworthy. Doesn’t anyone get tired of making these absolute declarations with no proof? No, he didn’t “have” to know. I don’t know which family members were involved, but bail is one thing thing a Virginia magistrate would know about. Maybe Dad thought it would be better to keep this information to himself so Son wouldn’t know and wouldn’t paint himself as a flight risk. I have no idea. And neither do you. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1079 "2012-04-27T18:16:45Z")
Please excuse my foray into common sense. Whether or not Zimmerman knew will probably never be publicly revealed, so it can never be discussed. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1080 "2012-04-27T18:27:44Z")
BTW, stating “Zimmerman knew” would be a declaration while “had to know” merely expresses an opinion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=53) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=55)