# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 56
**Author:** ![enomaj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@enomaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enomaj)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1101 "2012-04-28T01:09:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Although Zimmerman spent some of the contributions on living expenses, about $150,000 remains, O’Mara said Friday. When did he spend the money? Judge rejects bail hike: [Trayvon Martin Case: Judge Rejects Bail Hike For George Zimmerman | HuffPost Voices](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/27/trayvon-martin-case-george-zimmerman-bail_n_1460364.html?ref=trayvon-martin) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1102 "2012-04-28T01:23:12Z")
> [@enomaj](#): > > When did he spend the money? > > Judge rejects bail hike: [Trayvon Martin Case: Judge Rejects Bail Hike For George Zimmerman | HuffPost Voices](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/27/trayvon-martin-case-george-zimmerman-bail_n_1460364.html?ref=trayvon-martin) Before he was arrested. But… At that point, there may have been $51,000 in the account and he spent $50,000. So that’s not default for showing he knew there was $200K. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1103 "2012-04-28T01:39:27Z")
> [@enomaj](#): > > When did he spend the money? > > Judge rejects bail hike: [Trayvon Martin Case: Judge Rejects Bail Hike For George Zimmerman | HuffPost Voices](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/27/trayvon-martin-case-george-zimmerman-bail_n_1460364.html?ref=trayvon-martin) ‘Reject’ is a little strong: > [@](#): > > “I’m not going to make a snap decision,” Florida Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester Jr. said during a hearing Friday in Sanford, where Martin, 17, was shot to death in late February. Lester said he needed more information about Zimmerman’s fundraising before he could reconsider increasing the bond, according to reports. Sounds like it could happen after he reviews the details. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1104 "2012-04-28T02:09:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The oversight could have been Zimmerman’s failure to read email directed at him giving him totals, or a hard copy letter that he Zimmerman should have read. The oversight could have been Zimmerman’s brother not telling Zimmeramn about the total. My reasoning is that if the actual situation was similar to any of these scenarios, O’ Mara would be fairly _compelled_ to broadcast a bit more detail, in order to counter Crump’s insinuation that Zimmerman’s failure to disclose reflects his inclination to lie like a rug. If he _can_ assert that Zimmerman honestly didn’t know he had nearly a quarter of million dollars, why on Earth would he keep mum and offer up something so lame-sounding instead? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1105 "2012-04-28T02:24:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I say it’s not settled. If I were betting on the issue, i’d bet he knew. I’m so glad you say that, because…c’mon. Even if Daddy wanted to keep it a secret, his raising that much cash that fast had to get spilled with excitement. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1106 "2012-04-28T11:43:00Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I’m so glad you say that, because…c’mon. Even if Daddy wanted to keep it a secret, his raising that much cash that fast had to get spilled with excitement. Had to? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1107 "2012-04-28T11:49:18Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > My reasoning is that if the actual situation was similar to any of these scenarios, O’ Mara would be fairly _compelled_ to broadcast a bit more detail, in order to counter Crump’s insinuation that Zimmerman’s failure to disclose reflects his inclination to lie like a rug. > > If he _can_ assert that Zimmerman honestly didn’t know he had nearly a quarter of million dollars, why on Earth would he keep mum and offer up something so lame-sounding instead? Crump is not a party to any proceeding. Crump has no standing. The parties are Zimmerman, the State of Florida, and Judge Lester. O’Mara reacted appropriately no matter which factual situation existed, and no, I don’t agree you can infer anything at all from his reaction. Apparently Judge Lester also agrees that the lack of knowledge he had was not so critical that it required revoking or even raising bail. Since that’s really the only person to convince, O’Mara played it just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1108 "2012-04-28T11:54:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Apparently Judge Lester also agrees that the lack of knowledge he had was not so critical that it required revoking or even raising bail. As I pointed out in post #1103, Lester has not ruled out modifying bail at some point in the future, after he has time to review the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1109 "2012-04-28T12:51:46Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > As I pointed out in post #1103, Lester has not ruled out modifying bail at some point in the future, after he has time to review the facts. My mistake. What’s your prediction? No one knows yet, as you correctly point out. But I’m leaning towards the idea that Judge Lester will not raise Zimmerman’s bail. What do you think? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1110 "2012-04-28T12:55:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My mistake. > > What’s your prediction? > > No one knows yet, as you correctly point out. But I’m leaning towards the idea that Judge Lester will not raise Zimmerman’s bail. What do you think? I think you are probably right, but not so sure that I wouldn’t be totally surprised if he modified bail in some way. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1111 "2012-04-28T12:58:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. We can’t safely assume any such thing. The oversight in question could have been anytime between Zimmerman’s learning of it and the time he did reveal it. The oversight could have been Zimmerman’s failure to read email directed at him giving him totals, or a hard copy letter that he Zimmerman should have read. The oversight could have been Zimmerman’s brother not telling Zimmeramn about the total. > > Look, I don’t say it’s impossible that he knew, or even that it’s unlikely. > > I say it’s not settled. If I were betting on the issue, i’d bet he knew. I have a little trouble with the idea the that George Zimmerman was lying on Friday and then turned around and tells O’Mara the truth on Wednesday. It is possible that most of the funds wouldn’t have been contributed after an arrest warrant was issued for Zimmerman, so he have had access to his paypal account. I suspect the judge will turn over control of the funds to O’Mara, so Zimmerman won’t be a flight risk. Most of the money is O’Mara’s. He charges $400 an hour and the legal expenses for this case could run over a million. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1112 "2012-04-28T13:03:14Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I have a little trouble with the idea the that George Zimmerman was lying on Friday and then turned around and tells O’Mara the truth on Wednesday. I don’t think Zimmerman understands that O’Mara has an ethical obligation to inform the court about the PayPal account. There is no disconnect if Zimmerman thought telling O’Mara would be privileged information that he didn’t expect to be revealed and raise suspicions about his court testimony. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1113 "2012-04-28T13:12:22Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I think you are probably right, but not so sure that I wouldn’t be totally surprised if he modified bail in some way. Agreed. But if he does, I suspect it won’t be a sanction because he determined Zimmerman lied. Instead it will be a simple recognition that the purpose of bail is to ensure an appearance, and losing $150K is a huge deal to a family that doesn’t have it… but maybe not as big a deal to the family that has a sudden $200K windfall. This is of course why O’Mara needs to have that money in trust. It can be used for defense expenses but not one-way tickets to Brazil. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1114 "2012-04-28T13:19:33Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I don’t think Zimmerman understands that O’Mara has an ethical obligation to inform the court about the PayPal account. There is no disconnect if Zimmerman thought telling O’Mara would be privileged information that he didn’t expect to be revealed and raise suspicions about his court testimony. This is interesting. There’s no law broken by collecting the money. It’s true that O’Mara has a duty of candor towards the tribunal, but that’s not something that would allow him to breach confidentiality on his own; it’s not a continuing or future offense. Zimmerman could have demanded O’Mara not reveal the information and O’Mara would have to comply. Of course, that demand would place O’Mara in an impossible situation and he’d have to withdraw as counsel. Hmmm… Zimmerman’s already had one instance of a lawyer withdrawing. Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1115 "2012-04-28T13:25:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Agreed. But if he does, I suspect it won’t be a sanction because he determined Zimmerman lied. If Lester modifies bail because of the PayPal account, I would expect an admonishment to Zimmerman to be more forthright in his testimony. I don’t know if that rises to the level of sanctions in your book. > [@](#): > > Instead it will be a simple recognition that the purpose of bail is to ensure an appearance, and losing $150K is a huge deal to a family that doesn’t have it… but maybe not as big a deal to the family that has a sudden $200K windfall. > > This is of course why O’Mara needs to have that money in trust. It can be used for defense expenses but not one-way tickets to Brazil. I would agree with this. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1116 "2012-04-28T13:28:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Hmmm… Zimmerman’s already had one instance of a lawyer withdrawing. Interesting. And, in withdrawing, specifically mentioned the website used to collect donations. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1117 "2012-04-28T13:28:47Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I have a little trouble with the idea the that George Zimmerman was lying on Friday and then turned around and tells O’Mara the truth on Wednesday. It is possible that most of the funds wouldn’t have been contributed after an arrest warrant was issued for Zimmerman, so he have had access to his paypal account. Typo. I meant, “so he wouldn’t have had access to his paypal account.” ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1118 "2012-04-28T13:38:44Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I don’t think Zimmerman understands that O’Mara has an ethical obligation to inform the court about the PayPal account. There is no disconnect if Zimmerman thought telling O’Mara would be privileged information that he didn’t expect to be revealed and raise suspicions about his court testimony. But why tell him at all? Why would he feel it was necessary to tell O’Mara something on Wednesday, that he withheld on Friday? That indicates to me that George Zimmerman didn’t know, no matter what the rest of the family knew. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1119 "2012-04-28T13:52:52Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > But why tell him at all? Because, **1)** That kind of money can be useful to the defense, and **2)** Zimmerman thought once he got bail, telling O’Mara couldn’t possibly screw that up, because Zimmerman mistakenly believed O’Mara wouldn’t reveal that knowledge to the court. The old, “What he doesn’t know won’t hurt him” logic. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1120 "2012-04-28T15:55:35Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Don’t forget that George Zimmerman will own at least 50,000 in taxes on that money. It looks like I’m wrong. Zimmerman doesn’t have to pay income taxes on gifts. In some cases it looks like the people **giving** him money might be liable for taxes if they gave more than 13,000 total to Zimmerman. [http://www.moneyunder30.com/gift-tax](http://www.moneyunder30.com/gift-tax) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=55) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=57)