# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 575
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11484 "2013-06-30T18:19:31Z")
But the question wasn’t “who is taller,” the question was whether a skinny 17-year-old with a one-inch height advantage on the 7-11 clerk was “towering over” the clerk. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11485 "2013-06-30T18:20:18Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > But the question wasn’t “who is taller,” the question was whether a skinny 17-year-old with a one-inch height advantage on the 7-11 clerk was “towering over” the clerk. Look at the video. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11486 "2013-06-30T18:21:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Much taller than Zimmerman’s 5’-8"? And if you’re going to bring up weight - yes, the difference was 27lb - 158lb vs. 185lb. So - who’s the “bigger man”? Zimmerman is the bigger man, Martin was the taller man. Glad to clear that up for you. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11487 "2013-06-30T18:25:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Look at the video. Yes, I know that whenever you see a video with a black person and a white person in it you see menace. You don’t need to provide any further evidence of that. But I place a lot more credence in the objective fact that one person was one inch taller than the other, weighed less, and was doing nothing but paying for his goods and not looming over him. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11488 "2013-06-30T18:30:13Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Zimmerman is the bigger man, Martin was the taller man. Glad to clear that up for you. SO, bigger _always_ means heavier, not taller, and witnesses can _always_ tell weight exactly by looking at someone? Bullshit. Stop changing facts to fit your narrative. We simply can’t tell from the relative sizes of them who was on top just because someone said it was the bigger one. Fortunately, we can from the description of the darker skinned person in clothes that matched Martin’s on top, and the lighter skinned person with clothes that matched Zimmerman’s on bottom. Not a lot of room for doubt there. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11489 "2013-06-30T18:31:25Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Zimmerman is the bigger man, Martin was the taller man. Glad to clear that up for you. I see. So you are looking 50-60’ away in the dark at a 6" 158lb man sitting on top of a 5’-8" 185lb man. Do you think it is possible to say who’s bigger? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11490 "2013-06-30T18:31:42Z")
I notice you’re both ignoring your mistake in comprehending my post… ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11491 "2013-06-30T18:32:43Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Yes, I know that whenever you see a video with a black person and a white person in it you see menace. “menace” is in your fantasies. But the video shows Martin as bigger than the clerk. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11492 "2013-06-30T18:34:30Z")
One inch taller, not particularly bigger, and not doing anything threatening. What on Earth do you think “towering over” means? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11493 "2013-06-30T18:35:29Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > One inch taller, not particularly bigger, and not doing anything threatening. What on Earth do you think “towering over” means? Meaning one is much bigger than the other. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11494 "2013-06-30T18:37:51Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I notice you’re both ignoring your mistake in comprehending my post… Your post is attempting to counteract the point about height and looming by meandering into a different area about eyewitness reliability that’s not particularly relevant. My point is that Team Zimmerman is delusional in their insistence that a one-inch height difference in the 7-11 video constitutes “towering over” to the point that we need to doubt the coroner’s report of height and believe that only Martin could possibly have been the “bigger man” seen by any witness. Your point is that eyewitness testimony is unreliable. Well, no shit. The eyewitnesses already provide four different accounts of what happened in this case, in case anyone didn’t already know going in how unreliable such testimony is. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11495 "2013-06-30T18:38:47Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > SO, bigger _always_ means heavier, not taller, and witnesses can _always_ tell weight exactly by looking at someone? Bullshit. Stop changing facts to fit your narrative. We simply can’t tell from the relative sizes of them who was on top just because someone said it was the bigger one. We know they weren’t talking about the taller man, because neither was standing when the witnesses saw them. So the man who looked fatter was the bigger man. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11496 "2013-06-30T18:39:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Meaning one is much bigger than the other. OK, I don’t think that having a one inch height advantage on someone who is stockier than you constitutes being “much bigger.” I think I’m in line with how normal people use English. A four inch height advantage over someone who is also heavier than you MIGHT constitute “much bigger” to a reasonable person, but we’re talking about the clerk, not Zimmerman. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11497 "2013-06-30T18:44:48Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > OK, I don’t think that having a one inch height advantage on someone who is stockier than you constitutes being “much bigger.” Look at the video. You are studiously ignoring it. Martin is much bigger than the clerk in the video. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11498 "2013-06-30T18:47:42Z")
But after the video stopped, he shrunk in the rain, which is how he ended up only one inch taller than the clerk according to actual measurements. Is there something other than their objective, physical height that I should be looking at to determine who is more physically intimidating in your perception? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11499 "2013-06-30T19:02:25Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > We know they weren’t talking about the taller man, because neither was standing when the witnesses saw them. So the man who looked fatter was the bigger man. So, which man _looked_ fatter at the time? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11500 "2013-06-30T19:04:18Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > So, which man _looked_ fatter at the time? The man who weighed more, yet was three inches shorter. We are making real progress here! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11501 "2013-06-30T19:34:01Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The man who weighed more, yet was three inches shorter. We are making real progress here! 😃 Oh, how do you know he looked fatter? Have you witnesses who saw them both and said that? Don’t forget, baggy clothes can hide a skinny frame much easier that a height difference. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11502 "2013-06-30T19:40:22Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Oh, how do you know he looked fatter? Have you witnesses who saw them both and said that? Don’t forget, baggy clothes can hide a skinny frame much easier that a height difference. I am confident that a jury, presented with the facts that Zimmerman was 20 pounds heavier yet three inches shorter than Martin, will conclude that Zimmerman is more likely to be perceived as the bigger man, especially when neither man is standing. The fact that Zimmerman has gained 100 pounds since he was arrested certainly isn’t helping him as the jury wrestles with who was the bigger man. Perhaps they shouldn’t reach conclusions based on his current appearance, but you will have a hard time unringing that bell. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11503 "2013-06-30T19:44:28Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The fact that Zimmerman has gained 100 pounds since he was arrested certainly isn’t helping him as the jury wrestles with who was the bigger man. Perhaps they shouldn’t reach conclusions based on his current appearance, but you will have a hard time unringing that bell. The fact that Martin called Zimmerman a “creepy ass cracker” (repeated in loud voice by “DeeDee” in the courtroom half a dozen times) certainly isn’t helping the prosecution as the jury (mostly of “crackers”) wrestles with who was the racist. Perhaps they shouldn’t reach conclusions based on that utterance (or maybe they should) but you will have a hard time unringing that bell. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=574) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=576)