# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1161 "2012-04-30T13:53:31Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Firstly, am I the only one bothered by the idea that a random neighbor, just minutes after a homicide, with police officers present, was allowed to wander the crime scene taking pictures and doing og knows what else? Is there something in the photo that let’s us know that it was taken _inside_ the crime scene and not somewhere _outside_ of the area which was secured (according to the Police report)? If not, then perhaps we should start by refuting the idea that it was shot _outside_ the crime scene before we assume that is was _inside_ the crime scene. imho > [@DragonAsh](#): > > And if police officers -weren’t- on the scene…why is the neighbor taking pictures of GZ’s head and not trying to see if the guy lying face down a few feet away is, you know, breathing or not? Afaik, we don’t have access to all of what was on the photographer’s phone. So, it’s possible that there’re more things on that phone which we do not know about. As such I can’t rule out that the photographer _did_ take pictures of things which you find more suitable subjects. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Secondly, how in the hell does the neighbor even take that picture of Zimmerman’s head from angle? Is the neighbor actually Manute Bol? Did he ask Zimmerman to kneel down? I am just guessing here, but I think it’s possible that the photographer lifted his camera above Z’s head and pointed it at Z’s head from there. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Odd that, suddenly finding himself in the middle of a gun shot homicide crime scene, the first thing he’d photograph is…the back of the potential suspect’s head. Do we know that was the first thing which the photographer photographed? > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Surely the lifeless body a few feet away was the most important feature of the entire area. Just because we haven’t seen those photos, doesn’t mean that they don’t exist. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > And I can’t believe this random neighbor would be standing there with a cell phone asking the suspect to kneel down to take some pictures…all with police officers there. I am not inclined to believe it either. That’s why I have my theory about the photographer using his hand or hands to lift the camera above Z’s head. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > What was he taking pictures with? The reports I’ve seen say that the picture was taken with an iPhone 4S. My (admittedly not very scientific) experiment with my iPhone 4 outside in my yard last night suggested that taking a picture from slightly above my 2yr old son’s head didn’t highlight the grass below very well - but in the picture the grass seems pretty well exposed given that it was a dark and rainy night (with apologies to Snoopy). Make of that what you will. Perhaps the lighting in your backyard was not identical to the lighting created by the flash lights, headlights, and porch lights which were on that evening in the physical position Z was in. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1162 "2012-04-30T15:35:08Z")
Does anybody know if Alan Dershowitz intends to join the defense? This trial could get very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1163 "2012-04-30T20:55:00Z")
> **[Trayvon Martin case: Zimmerman laywer’s worries over witnesses could delay case](https://www.nydailynews.com/2012/04/30/trayvon-martin-case-zimmerman-laywers-worries-over-witnesses-could-delay-case/)** > > Worries over the safety of witnesses could delay the trial against Trayvon Martin’s killer. George Zimmerman’s attorney, Mark O’Mara, said on his website Sunday he’ll delay … > [@](#): > > Worries over the safety of witnesses could delay the trial against Trayvon Martin’s killer. > > George Zimmerman’s attorney, Mark O’Mara, said on his website Sunday he’ll delay asking prosecutors for evidence in the case until a judge rules to protect the witnesses. I get the sense from this that the prosecutor has witnesses that we haven’t heard from to date. Could be that these witnesses saw the altercation and reported things that substantially contradict Zimmerman’s story. If so, I’m looking forward to learning about what they saw. I hope they saw enough of the conflict to be of real use. Isn’t it weird for the defense to be expressing worry over the safety of the prosecution’s witnesses? Who exactly would these witnesses be in danger from, other than overzealous Zimmerman’s supporters who might become very unhappy with the things they have to say? Given this, unless someone presents a compelling reason why this inference is improper, I take this move by O’Mara as an implicit admission that these witnesses aren’t going to be reporting trifle little inconsequential nothings. Because trivialities don’t incite lip service about witness protections. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1164 "2012-04-30T22:02:08Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Isn’t it weird for the defense to be expressing worry over the safety of the prosecution’s witnesses? Where did it say that the defense was worried about the safety of **prosecution’s** witnesses? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1165 "2012-04-30T22:17:16Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Isn’t it weird for the defense to be expressing worry over the safety of the prosecution’s witnesses? Who exactly would these witnesses be in danger from, other than overzealous Zimmerman’s supporters who might become very unhappy with the things they have to say? > . I’d say it’s an ethical obligation for them to be concerned about their safety. It’s also possible that Zimmerman’s team may have heard from people who would be inclined to harm any prosecution witnesses, and as such to be in a better position to judge what danger there is. I very much doubt that Zimmerman’s lawyers would want to see any witness intimidation, even in the unlikely event their client did. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1166 "2012-04-30T22:18:19Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Where did it say that the defense was worried about the safety of **prosecution’s** witnesses? In the statement where they’ve agreed to the **prosecution** delaying the release of their evidence due to concerns over witness safety. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1167 "2012-04-30T22:21:21Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > In the statement where they’ve agreed to the **prosecution** delaying the release of their evidence due to concerns over witness safety. Prosecution’s evidence includes witnesses that are favorable to defense, ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1168 "2012-04-30T23:27:07Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If he certainly said “coon”, there may be grounds for claiming hate. As it’s only audible on an edited tape, and even then not directed at anybody, I’m dubious. > > Also, he had reasonable grounds for suspecting Martin. ``` Zimmerman is part black, on his Peruvian mother's side. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1169 "2012-04-30T23:32:30Z")
Ok, quiz time. Who knows what it means for the prosecution to turn over _Brady_ material? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1170 "2012-04-30T23:50:26Z")
> [@Poochey](#): > > Zimmerman is part black, on his Peruvian mother’s side. Assuming that is true, what should we conclude? ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1171 "2012-04-30T23:55:41Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Apologies if it’s been covered already - I’m only part way through the 20-odd pages of this thread, but I’m wondering about the pictures reported to be of Zimmerman’s head taken just ‘minutes after the shooting’ by a neighbor. So many things seem really weird. > > Firstly, am I the only one bothered by the idea that a random neighbor, just minutes after a homicide, with police officers present, was allowed to wander the crime scene taking pictures and doing og knows what else? > > And if police officers -weren’t- on the scene…why is the neighbor taking pictures of GZ’s head and not trying to see if the guy lying face down a few feet away is, you know, breathing or not? > > Secondly, how in the hell does the neighbor even take that picture of Zimmerman’s head from angle? Is the neighbor actually Manute Bol? Did he ask Zimmerman to kneel down? Odd that, suddenly finding himself in the middle of a gun shot homicide crime scene, the first thing he’d photograph is…the back of the potential suspect’s head. Surely the lifeless body a few feet away was the most important feature of the entire area. And I can’t believe this random neighbor would be standing there with a cell phone asking the suspect to kneel down to take some pictures…all with police officers there. > > What was he taking pictures with? The reports I’ve seen say that the picture was taken with an iPhone 4S. My (admittedly not very scientific) experiment with my iPhone 4 outside in my yard last night suggested that taking a picture from slightly above my 2yr old son’s head didn’t highlight the grass below very well - but in the picture the grass seems pretty well exposed given that it was a dark and rainy night (with apologies to Snoopy). Make of that what you will. > > Slightly more importantly - I don’t see any sign of the black stripe across the back of GZ’s jacket - the stripe is very visible in the video from the station 30 minutes or so after the shooting. Could just be the crop of the photograph, but just eyeballing it, it sure looks like the stripe should be at least partially visible. The photographer may have taken other pictures. It should be apparent to everyone by now that Zimmerman is short, or everyone else in the pictures seen with him are unusually tall. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1172 "2012-05-01T00:05:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Ok, quiz time. Who knows what it means for the prosecution to turn over _Brady_ material? I just googled it. Means the state has to share evidence thats in favor of the defendant, as well as against. Which shouldn’t be shocking to anyone. I go back to the O’Mara’s delay request. Since we know there have been witnesses associated with this case from day 1, why isn’t it until now that there is this scramble to get witness protections in place? The release of names shouldn’t have been a surprise to anyone; so one would think that these safety issues would have been anticipated and addressed a long time ago. Not on the same day everyone was expecting the evidence to go public. How typical is this, is what I’m wondering? It seems like a stall tactic and nothing more to me. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1173 "2012-05-01T00:16:35Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I just googled it. Means the state has to share evidence thats in favor of the defendant, as well as against. Which shouldn’t be shocking to anyone. Right you are. Specifically in this case, it means that the state’s evidence turned over in discovery may include, “We interviewed Abe Simpson of 154 Twin Trees, and he reported seeing Martin holding a mace in one hand and a chainsaw in the other as he approached Zimmerman.” You get the idea. I mention this because there seemed to be confusion above about why the prosecution’s evidence would expose witnesses to danger. The witnesses in the discovery material may be defense witnesses with testimony favorable to the accused. > [@](#): > > I go back to the O’Mara’s delay request. Since we know there have been witnesses associated with this case from day 1, why isn’t it until now that there is this scramble to get witness protections in place? The release of names shouldn’t have been a surprise to anyone; so one would think that these safety issues would have been anticipated and addressed a long time ago. Not on the same day everyone was expecting the evidence to go public. > > How typical is this, is what I’m wondering? It seems like a stall tactic and nothing more to me. The only thing I can think of is that O’Mara was apprised today that the discovery material included information that might cause members of the public to express their displeasure at the witness’ information. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1174 "2012-05-01T00:58:53Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > I am curious about the encounter between Z and M which involves Z still being in his vehicle and rolling the window up. Is that actually in Z’s account? Or merely in the version of one of his proxies? This is what Tacy Martin _says_ that Detective Serino _says_ that Zimmerman _said_. [http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/tracy-martin](http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/tracy-martin) > [@](#): > > Sanford police have stopped talking to reporters about the case, and Serino has never spoken publicly about his role in it, but here is how Martin recalls what Serino said: “He told me Zimmerman’s story was that Zimmerman was of course following him and that Trayvon approached his vehicle, walked up to the car and asked Zimmerman, ‘Why are your following me?’ Zimmerman then rolls his car windows down, tells Trayvon ‘I’m not following you.’ He rolls his car windows up. So what we have is hearsay two layers deep. We know Trayvon got a good look at Zimmerman while Zimmerman was in his truck talking on the phone with police (Zimmerman: “Now he’s just staring at me.”). We also have Dede’s story that Trayvon said, “Why are you following me?” just before the fight. Perhaps Tracy Martin is getting these mixed up. We won’t know until we see Zimmerman’s actual account. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1175 "2012-05-01T01:00:59Z")
O’Mara talks some more about the discovery evidence. [http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment\_tv\_tvblog/2012/04/george-zimmerman-could-case-set-precedent.html](http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2012/04/george-zimmerman-could-case-set-precedent.html) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1176 "2012-05-01T01:16:28Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > O’Mara talks some more about the discovery evidence. > > [http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment\_tv\_tvblog/2012/04/george-zimmerman-could-case-set-precedent.html](http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2012/04/george-zimmerman-could-case-set-precedent.html) Usually when I hear stories about keeping court information secret, it’s one side that wants to and the other doesn’t. One or the other always seems to want the case tried in the news. So I wonder if how unusual a situation this is that both parties want to keep the court documents sealed. That means both side may have to work together cooperatively to fend off some attack by media lawyers. ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1177 "2012-05-01T01:55:09Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Assuming that is true, what should we conclude? Perhaps it’s less likely Zimmerman would use that racial slur. Likely irrelevant anyway, since the State claimed he said punks. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1178 "2012-05-01T02:57:31Z")
> [@Poochey](#): > > Perhaps it’s less likely Zimmerman would use that racial slur. Likely irrelevant anyway, since the State claimed he said punks. I don’t think he _did_ use that slur, and I will be gobsmacked if the prosecution makes any effort at all to colour Zimmerman as a bigot, but an afro-peruvian great-grandfather doesn’t really figure for much, as far as that is concerned. Hell, I know a guy with who is by all appearances \*\*100% \*\*ethnically Chinese (by way of Singapore, though raised here in Vancouver) who regularly causes all sorts of cognitive dissonance with the blistering racist language he uses during his semiannual road-rage incidents: “You goddamn chink! How much did you pay for your driver’s license?!” Target of abuse: 😕 Passengers: :o We would live in a Golden Utopia if a little bit of mixed ancestry made people less likely to be racist jerks, at all, at all. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1179 "2012-05-01T14:04:23Z")
[Judge orders partial disclosure of state’s evidence.](http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/judge-orders-some-states-evidence-be-made-public-g/nNNhD/) > [@](#): > > …the file could include information like the probable cause affidavit and investigative reports. > > However, the names and addresses of all of the state’s witnesses won’t be released because Lester has ordered that to be taken out. ---
**Author:** ![Poochey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@Poochey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poochey)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1180 "2012-05-01T14:19:58Z")
[http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/calls-zimmerman-made-to-sanford-police/vGbfd/](http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/calls-zimmerman-made-to-sanford-police/vGbfd/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=60)