# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 599
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11964 "2013-07-09T15:04:17Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > They were as discussed on numerous news programs, nothing more than superficial cuts. Tollhouse, you can clearly see his nose was swollen and you can see the whole back of his head is covered in abrasions with multiple puncture points. They are not a few scratches. > [@Tollhouse](#): > > While its true there are some types of head injuries that dont result in external scratches, this would not be the case for the type of injury gz claims. its pretty hard to have your head bashed into concrete repeatedly. for someone who had their head bashed into concrete, he didnt sustain deep gashes requiring any stitches, sskull fractures, concussion, head trauma or brain damage. But he whined about a couple superficial ouchies. I can see why his ex to get a protective order against him He did not whine about a couple of ouchies, he said outright he thought his head would explode. I’ve been knocked out cold by striking cement. Not one single scratch. The wounds on his head are consistent with his account and the Prosecution witness was forced to admit this on the stand. The Defense has yet to bring in THEIR witnesses. All it takes is an expert who will testify they’ve brain trauma with less visual exterior injuries. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11965 "2013-07-09T15:07:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > As it happens, though, the defense consented to a manslaughter instruction when they moved for a directed verdict at the close of the prosecution case. O’Mara argued that the judge should at least dismiss second degree murder but let the jury consider manslaughter. If they did not ask for a dismissal would that have taken manslaughter off the table? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11966 "2013-07-09T15:08:44Z")
Tollhouse: You seem to be ignoring this exchange. Let’s try it again: > [@Bricker](#): > > Still waiting for an answer. I have posted several links showing other people who were Zimmerman’s friends. These date from March 2012. You haven’t posted a single link so much as confirming your own (claimed) recollection. > > So: where’s your evidence that Taafe was Zimmerman’s only friend? > [@Tollhouse](#): > > I answered above…another poster added something pretty interesting re Gzs ‘friends’ above. In what post did you answer this? What’s the post number? What did you say to answer it? Where is your linked, cited evidence that Taafe was Zimmerman’s only friend? Well? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11967 "2013-07-09T15:09:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If they did not ask for a dismissal would that have taken manslaughter off the table? No, the prosecution would have been free to argue that the jury should be instructed on it, as I mentioned before. And given the way the trial unfolded, i think the defense would have a hard time claiming they were prejudiced by the instruction, since they have vigorously defended against all the elements. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11968 "2013-07-09T15:30:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Tollhouse: > > You seem to be ignoring this exchange. Let’s try it again: > > In what post did you answer this? What’s the post number? What did you say to answer it? > > Where is your linked, cited evidence that Taafe was Zimmerman’s only friend? > > Well? I think I stated above that I saw a show where the host asked taaffe where all of gzs other friends and family were to speak out on his behalf and that taaffe seems to be the only one appearing on news programs to sing gzs praises. You seem to be very worked up about the whole friend thing, you can scroll up yourself, I also stated another poster pointed out the oddity of the couple of so called friends the defense dug up, how one couple for example claiming to be his ‘close friends’ hadnt seen him in years or discussed the case in almost two years, and one spouse donated thousands of dollars to gz, scroll up, this was a post another member wrote regarding the unusual nature of a couple people the defense is describing as gzs ‘close friends’ ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11969 "2013-07-09T15:51:19Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > I think I stated above that I saw a show where the host asked taaffe where all of gzs other friends and family were to speak out on his behalf and that taaffe seems to be the only one appearing on news programs to sing gzs praises. You seem to be very worked up about the whole friend thing, you can scroll up yourself, I also stated another poster pointed out the oddity of the couple of so called friends the defense dug up, how one couple for example claiming to be his ‘close friends’ hadnt seen him in years or discussed the case in almost two years, and one spouse donated thousands of dollars to gz, scroll up, this was a post another member wrote regarding the unusual nature of a couple people the defense is describing as gzs ‘close friends’ He’s just pointing out you don’t have any cite. Which you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11970 "2013-07-09T15:52:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, the prosecution would have been free to argue that the jury should be instructed on it, as I mentioned before. And given the way the trial unfolded, i think the defense would have a hard time claiming they were prejudiced by the instruction, since they have vigorously defended against all the elements. So lesser charges along the same lines are pretty much a given. It would take a charge of a different nature to make such a claim. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11971 "2013-07-09T16:30:48Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > I think I stated above that I saw a show where the host asked taaffe where all of gzs other friends and family were to speak out on his behalf and that taaffe seems to be the only one appearing on news programs to sing gzs praises. You seem to be very worked up about the whole friend thing, you can scroll up yourself, I also stated another poster pointed out the oddity of the couple of so called friends the defense dug up, how one couple for example claiming to be his ‘close friends’ hadnt seen him in years or discussed the case in almost two years, and one spouse donated thousands of dollars to gz, scroll up, this was a post another member wrote regarding the unusual nature of a couple people the defense is describing as gzs ‘close friends’ The problem is that “I saw a show…” is not a cite. What was the name of the show, and when did it air? I linked to an appearance on the “Dr. Phil” show by another Zimmerman friend. I’m not worked up about the friend thing. I’m worked up about you claiming something as fact when it plainly isn’t. Indeed, even now you haven’t said, “OK, looks like I was wrong – Traafe is NOT Zimmerman’s only friend.” My link clearly shows that Taafe wasn’t the only one appearing on shows as Zimmerman’s friend. You were wrong about that, weren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11972 "2013-07-09T16:35:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So lesser charges along the same lines are pretty much a given. It would take a charge of a different nature to make such a claim. If the jury doesn’t disbelieve/dismiss the self-defense case beyond reasonable doubt, it cannot convict for manslaughter either. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11973 "2013-07-09T16:37:48Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > You said its not right, but its not wrong? That sounds like a riddle, like you want it both ways, Im not sure what you mean. Profiling what? What was there to profile? He was in high school, and was wearing a sweatshirt, what the majority of boys and even alot of girls that age wear, it is a really popular style of dress that high school andyoung college age kids wear from all socio economic was of life. Its not like he was dressed in gang attire flashing a gang sign,…that would be a cause to profile. But **there was nothing about Martin to profile**. > [@doorhinge](#): > > What do you mean, there was nothing to profile? > > It was a crime-riddled neighborhood. The residents said there were a lot of burglaries and thefts. The Sanford police has a long record of burglary reports from Twin Oaks. The neighbors were calling the PD an average of once a day. The neighbors got together and formed a neighborhood watch because of the crime. The SPD had even helped set up the NW. The residents were told that if they saw “anything” suspicious they should call the police. > > Residents were profiling strangers. TM was a stranger who happened to be acting in a suspicious manner. TM dressed like any other kid which is how the burglars were dressed - just like any other kid. > > The fact that TM was acting suspiciously warranted a call to the police. > > Neither TM or GZ did anything illegal up until the time one of them started manhandling the other. It’s not illegal to ask someone a question. It is illegal to punch someone for asking a question. > [@Tollhouse](#): > > Door hinge, what do you mean, what do I mean? Im aware there were some burglaries there, my question was specifically about TM, as we now all know, he wasnt engaged in anything more suspicious than being a high school kid walking in his neighborhood. He had a bag of skittles in his pocket. Gz was the suspicious one, and as it turns out, after he so eagerly volunteered to patrol around in his car, a boy with nothing more than a bag of candy in his pocket ends up dead and gz has a couple very minor injuries, the superficial cut on his head didnt even require a bandaid. The only suspicious person prowling around that day was gz You said, “ **there was nothing about Martin to profile** ”. TM wasn’t profiled because he was a high school kid. He wasn’t profiled because he had skittles in his pocket. TM was profiled as a suspicious person, standing in the rain, in a neighborhood that had a long history of burgleries and thefts. Considering the number of calls to police being made by the residents of Twin Oaks, it’s reasonable to believe that any one of the residents would have called the police about TM’s presence if they had spotted him. Given the existing situation, there was sufficient reason to profile TM and there was sufficient reason to call the police. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11974 "2013-07-09T16:50:15Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > I think I stated above that I saw a show where the host asked taaffe where all of gzs other friends and family were to speak out on his behalf and that taaffe seems to be the only one appearing on news programs to sing gzs praises. Taaffe is being “invited” to appear on various shows. I believe it’s because the shows themselves have decided that Taaffe has a certain “entertainment value” and will boost the shows ratings. Taaffe speaks for Taaffe. Taaffe is NOT a part of the defense team. Trying to hold GZ responsible for anything that Taaffe says or does is absurd and appears to be a desperate act on your part to paint GZ with words actually spoken by Taaffe. It doesn’t appear to be working. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11975 "2013-07-09T17:02:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The problem is that “I saw a show…” is not a cite. What was the name of the show, and when did it air? I linked to an appearance on the “Dr. Phil” show by another Zimmerman friend. > > I’m not worked up about the friend thing. I’m worked up about you claiming something as fact when it plainly isn’t. > > Indeed, even now you haven’t said, “OK, looks like I was wrong – Traafe is NOT Zimmerman’s only friend.” My link clearly shows that Taafe wasn’t the only one appearing on shows as Zimmerman’s friend. > > You were wrong about that, weren’t you? When I saw the show I didnt write down the name , channel, etc. Does that mean Im not allowed to share what I saw? And another poster as I said reported how the couple of alleged friends who the defense dug up as witnesses seemed to have a very unusual type of friendship with zimmerman, for people who claim to be his ‘close friend’ I dont think theres much more to get worked up over, whether he had one friend or a hundred, isnt evidence he is a murderer. The gist of my point which you seem to have missed, is that the person who has been by far the strongest and most public supporter of zimmerman, is a hardcore racist. He seems completely unconcerned with the fact that a young innocent teenager is now dead due to gzs actions. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11976 "2013-07-09T17:05:57Z")
Doorhinge, your statement is completely offensive, if I am understanding you correctly. You are claiming that Tm was suspicious because,…he was walking in his neighborhood, and also, shit, it happened to be raining. Damm, I remember times I walked home from school or on a weekend when it happened to be raining. Lucky I wasnt wearing a hoodie, and I knew better than to be black. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11977 "2013-07-09T17:13:05Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Trying to hold GZ responsible for anything that Taaffe says or does is absurd and appears to be a desperate act on your part to paint GZ with words actually spoken by Taaffe. It doesn’t appear to be working. According to,…you? You may not be aware of it, but there are many many people who find it very suspect that gzs promoter buddy is a prolific racist. Like it or not, there is something to the fact you will be at least partly judged by the company you keep. And to make it look even worse, taaffe coincidentally (?) happens to hold deeply racist views against blacks, who gz happens to be in question of having singled out tm because of HIS views on black people. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11978 "2013-07-09T17:18:56Z")
Doorhinge, I can see we have very different views. It sounds like your saying people wouldve wanted to call the police if they saw tm walking home through his neighborhood. (not because they actually saw him DO anything, such as prying open a window, or carrying out a stereo through a window, but just solely because he was a kid walking home). Nobody I know would call the police because they see a high school kid walking, and I wouldnt either. That is just so, so offensive, I would be embarrassed to admit it outloud even if I did hold those kind of views. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11979 "2013-07-09T17:25:59Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > When I saw the show I didnt write down the name , channel, etc. > Does that mean Im not allowed to share what I saw? No. But now I have provided you with [definitive evidence](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTAEWOzJg0k) that this claim wasn’t true. That’s a link to the Dr. Phil show that aired in September of 2012. In it, Dr. Phil interviews Zimmerman friend Mark Osterman. So now, in contrast to your vaguely remembered show, a show that you can’t provide any evidence for at all, you have in front of you solid proof that Traafe is NOT Zimmerman’s only friend. So right now, it’s obvious your claim was wrong, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11980 "2013-07-09T17:28:21Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > According to,…you? You may not be aware of it, but there are many many people who find it very suspect that gzs promoter buddy is a prolific racist. Like it or not, there is something to the fact you will be at least partly judged by the company you keep. And to make it look even worse, taaffe coincidentally (?) happens to hold deeply racist views against blacks, who gz happens to be in question of having singled out tm because of HIS views on black people. Has Zimmerman ever said he regards Traafe as a friend? See, I saw this show once where Traafe admitted he never even met Zimmerman. He just latched on to the case as a good way to promote his racist views. Unfortunately, I didn’t write down the name of the show, what time it aired, or what channel it was on. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11981 "2013-07-09T17:34:00Z")
It sounds like your saying that because I didnt write down the name of the show, it means Im lying about it? I assumed it was ok to be honest and just say that I dont know the name of the show, it was a cable news program with a panel of attorneys. From how worked up and intense you sound, maybe decaf would be a good option, not everybody writes down everytime they see a news show, the time, date, name, etc, but I didnt know there isnt room or that it was not ok to snare something for which I didnt write down every detail…enough ---
**Author:** ![Mr-Pookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ed655f/32.png) [@Mr-Pookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr-Pookie)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11982 "2013-07-09T17:35:53Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Given the existing situation, there was sufficient reason to profile TM and there was sufficient reason to call the police. I don’t believe there was sufficient reason to deem Trayvon suspicious. Even if there was sufficient reason to call the police then let the police do their job. Zimmerman didn’t just call the cops though. Zimmerman tracked down his suspect and then didn’t like how the fair fight was going. Zimmerman didn’t like a couple scrapes, a few bruises that his own medical expert had trouble identifying positively in photos. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/11983 "2013-07-09T17:37:25Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > It sounds like your saying that because I didnt write down the name of the show, it means Im lying about it? I assumed it was ok to be honest and just say that I dont know the name of the show, it was a cable news program with a panel of attorneys. No. Right now I’m asking you to acknowledge that what you previously believed, and posted, was in fact incorrect – Traafe is not, and was not during all times relevant to this case, Zimmerman’s only friend. Do you now agree that Traafe is not and was never Zimmerman’s only friend? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=598) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=600)