# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 605
**Author:** ![Mr-Pookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ed655f/32.png) [@Mr-Pookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr-Pookie)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12084 "2013-07-10T01:44:57Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Hell, [this woman, Sarah McKinley](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57352784-504083/okla-mom-sarah-mckinley-wont-face-charges-for-shooting-intruder/), shot and killed a man, and she didn’t have a mark on her. Since comparing wounds is how we judge self-defense cases in Mr-Pookie’s world, are you outraged that she’s not in prison? That is her castle. She is well within her rights to kill an intruder and protect her home. This is not that case at all. I am all for self defense. My wife is a lifetime NRA member and my father in law carries and takes me shooting all the time. I respect gun owners and their rights. My gun and self defense credentials are spotless. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12085 "2013-07-10T01:47:23Z")
trayvon was walking home it happened to be raining this is what he was actually DOING nothing more or less This is a pure case of he was singled out for… being black,… not for anything he was DOING fatso gz revealed his ill will when he muttered “fucking punks” to the operator, followed by another racial epithet people…Gz was the suspicious one, up to no good…NOT tm ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12086 "2013-07-10T01:48:14Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > That is her castle. She is well within her rights to kill an intruder and protect her home. > > This is not that case at all. > > I am all for self defense. My wife is a lifetime NRA member and my father in law carries and takes me shooting all the time. I respect gun owners and their rights. My gun and self defense credentials are spotless. Ah, so injuries, let alone a particular grade of injury, aren’t required before someone defends themselves. So why are you so hung up on trying to minimize Zimmerman’s injuries as though that disproves self defense? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12087 "2013-07-10T01:50:03Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > trayvon was walking home > > it happened to be raining > > this is what he was actually DOING > > nothing more or less Were you there? If not, what makes you such an authority on Martin’s behavior? > [@Tollhouse](#): > > This is a pure case of he was singled out for… > being black,… > not for anything he was DOING > > fatso gz revealed his ill will when he muttered “fucking punks” to the operator, followed by another racial epithet Another? What was the first? And the second? ---
**Author:** ![Mr-Pookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ed655f/32.png) [@Mr-Pookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr-Pookie)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12088 "2013-07-10T01:54:46Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Ah, so injuries, let alone a particular grade of injury, aren’t required before someone defends themselves. > > So why are you so hung up on trying to minimize Zimmerman’s injuries as though that disproves self defense? In your house. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12089 "2013-07-10T01:57:51Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > trayvon was walking home Doesn’t fit the facts. > [@](#): > > it happened to be raining Yep. > [@](#): > > this is what he was actually DOING Nope. > [@](#): > > nothing more or less Prove it. > [@](#): > > This is a pure case of he was singled out for… > being black,… > not for anything he was DOING Prove it. > [@](#): > > fatso gz revealed his ill will when he muttered “fucking punks” to the operator, followed by another racial epithet Martin was the one uttering racial epithets, not Zimmerman. So, by your “reasoning”, you’ve just shown he is the guilty one. Congratulations! > [@](#): > > people…Gz was the suspicious one, up to no good…NOT tm Well yes, we know Zimmerman was suspicious, that’s why he called the police. Martin was the one acting suspiciously. Calling the police about someone you are suspicious of is not being “up to no good”, it’s the opposite, it’s literally being good, doing what you’re supposed to. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12090 "2013-07-10T01:58:21Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > In your house. No, anywhere the person has a right to be. Florida statute [776.012](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.012.htm): > [@](#): > > Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if: > (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or > > (2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12091 "2013-07-10T01:58:51Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > In your house. Or anywhere in Florida. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12092 "2013-07-10T02:00:54Z")
Oh, and for completeness, [776.013, section 3:](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html) > [@](#): > > (3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony. ---
**Author:** ![Mr-Pookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ed655f/32.png) [@Mr-Pookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr-Pookie)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12093 "2013-07-10T02:01:57Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Ah, so injuries, let alone a particular grade of injury, aren’t required before someone defends themselves. > > So why are you so hung up on trying to minimize Zimmerman’s injuries as though that disproves self defense? Because I believe the totality of GZ’s actions makes him an equal or greater aggressor deserving of an ass whipping. As I and others have said countless times. Nobody invaded Zimmermans property. Nobody but Zimmerman was recorded wanting to get punks and not let them get away. Based on the evidence Trayvon may well have been defending himself from a creepy ass cracker. This is not a cut and dry case of self defense if you dont buy the details of how they came together and how the physical contact started. I dont buy Zimmermans account as many here seem to do. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12094 "2013-07-10T02:03:43Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > ] > This is not a cut and dry case of self defense if you dont buy the details of how they came together and how the physical contact started. Doesn’t need to be. It needs to be proven that it was not self defence, otherwise he is not guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Mr-Pookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ed655f/32.png) [@Mr-Pookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr-Pookie)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12095 "2013-07-10T02:04:04Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Oh, and for completeness, [776.013, section 3:](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html) You mean how Trayvon defended himself after rightly fearing great bodily harm? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12096 "2013-07-10T02:06:17Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > You mean how Trayvon defended himself after rightly fearing great bodily harm? Firstly, it’d be great if you could provide some evidence for that claim. And secondly yes, Zimmerman could theoretically have killed Martin in self defence after Martin legitimately defended himself. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12097 "2013-07-10T02:07:09Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Because I believe the totality of GZ’s actions makes him an equal or greater aggressor deserving of an ass whipping. As I and others have said countless times. > > Nobody invaded Zimmermans property. Nobody but Zimmerman was recorded wanting to get punks and not let them get away. Based on the evidence Trayvon may well have been defending himself from a creepy ass cracker. > > This is not a cut and dry case of self defense if you dont buy the details of how they came together and how the physical contact started. > > I dont buy Zimmermans account as many here seem to do. None of that explains trying to minimize Zimmerman’s injuries to “boo boos” or whatever. If you think he was the aggressor, fine, argue that: he’s injured, but Martin inflicted the injuries legally. What does it serve to claim his injuries weren’t what they were? Also, when did Zimmerman say that he wanted to get punks and not let them get away? My transcript seems to be missing that section. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12098 "2013-07-10T02:09:17Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > You mean how Trayvon defended himself after rightly fearing great bodily harm? I’m sorry you evidently didn’t know that Florida’s self-defense statute applied outside the home, but deflecting your error like this doesn’t speak to your debating in good faith. ---
**Author:** ![Mr-Pookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ed655f/32.png) [@Mr-Pookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr-Pookie)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12099 "2013-07-10T02:12:07Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Doesn’t need to be. It needs to be proven that it was not self defence, otherwise he is not guilty. No. Why didn’t you guys bring that up before now? “Look Honey, the case cracker” We all know with painful repetition the level the state must meet. I am not in court. hell Im not even in the serious thread for this trial. Calm down and listen to the words that are coming out of my fingers. I don’t think he will be convicted, but I don’t buy Zimmerman’s story. That is all. I choose to believe, based on the evidence I have seen that he was an aggressor and not entitled to self defense law. ---
**Author:** ![Mr-Pookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ed655f/32.png) [@Mr-Pookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr-Pookie)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12100 "2013-07-10T02:20:03Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I’m sorry you evidently didn’t know that Florida’s self-defense statute applied outside the home, but deflecting your error like this doesn’t speak to your debating in good faith. Did Zimmermans profiling comments to nen constitute a threat when you couple that with him chasing after Trayvon. Would that be stalking. Is that a crime? Shades of gray? Zimmerman is not an angel here and his entitlement to self defense is not a foregone conclusion. Did Zmmerman push or detain Trayvon against his will prior to the punch? I know these points have been debated and disagreed about as I have learned quite a bit from the good posters on this forum. Including you HumanAction. I, unlike criminal justice student and ccw holder Zimmerman, did know about Stand Your Ground in florida. Your insults will be ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Nothar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nothar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nothar)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12101 "2013-07-10T02:28:00Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > No. Why didn’t you guys bring that up before now? > > “Look Honey, the case cracker” > > We all know with painful repetition the level the state must meet. > > I am not in court. hell Im not even in the serious thread for this trial. > > Calm down and listen to the words that are coming out of my fingers. I don’t think he will be convicted, but I don’t buy Zimmerman’s story. That is all. I choose to believe, based on the evidence I have seen that he was an aggressor and not entitled to self defense law. You do not seem to understand that the aggressor can still be entitled to self defense under Florida law. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12102 "2013-07-10T02:30:12Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Did Zimmermans profiling comments to nen constitute a threat when you couple that with him chasing after Trayvon. What profiling comments? > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Would that be stalking. Is that a crime? Stalking is a crime, but among other things, it requires multiple incidents. So, no, on that basis alone, Zimmerman wasn’t stalking Martin. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Shades of gray? Zimmerman is not an angel here and his entitlement to self defense is not a foregone conclusion. Did Zmmerman push or detain Trayvon against his will prior to the punch? Maybe he did, but a) there’s no evidence that he did so, and b) the only arguments I’ve heard that he did something like that rely on very tortured interpretations of other evidence. For example, that saying “these assholes always get away” constitutes a vow to personally apprehend the “asshole”. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > I know these points have been debated and disagreed about as I have learned quite a bit from the good posters on this forum. Including you HumanAction. Good to know. Yes, most every aspect of this has been discussed at great length. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > I, unlike criminal justice student and ccw holder Zimmerman, did know about Stand Your Ground in florida. So…what’s with your “In your house” post? > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Your insults will be ignored. What insult? “[Such-and-such remark] doesn’t speak to your debating in good faith” is not an insult. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12103 "2013-07-10T02:50:02Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Mmmhmmm, , …so tm was a maniac beating gz to a pulp…and, then, gz ends up with no significant injuries? You honestly believe that a six foot tall 17 year old male who weighs 160 lbs only inflicted boo boo’s while on top of someone in a fight that we know lasted over 38 seconds? Care to be the test subject of that thesis? We could compare the boo boos. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=604) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=606)