# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 610
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12184 "2013-07-10T18:08:40Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Your argument is that he cant be lying, because that would mean he had to lie, (in order to lie) I can see how that doesnt make the murder defendant look very good. **That’s** the sum of your thoughts? What a waste of time this turned out to be. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12185 "2013-07-10T18:15:48Z")
Human action, You dismiss anything that doesnt look good or support your cause ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12186 "2013-07-10T18:17:49Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Ah, my little kumquat–I hadn’t realized you were as innocent about the concempt of “numbers” and “percentages” as you are to the concept of spelling, grammar and punctuation. > > That makes a lot of the things you’ve been saying clearer. Let me try to explain. Of the small percent of children who are abducted in the USA (and it _is_ a small percent), the cite I gave shows that there’s about a 75% chance they’ll be abducted by someone they know and a 25% chance they’ll be abducted by a stranger. > > These mysterious “percentages” of which I spoke show us that even though there’s a three-times greater chance of being abducted by someone you know, there’s _still_ a chance you’ll be abducted by a stranger. So…pointing out one specific case (or 10 cases, or 100 cases) of stranger-abduction really doesn’t prove anything. I dont want to be your kumquat, sorry. As far as stranger danger being no big deal, have you been balsy enough yet to called Erin Runnion to inform her that I am making too big a deal out of this issue? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12187 "2013-07-10T18:23:26Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Human action, > > You dismiss anything that doesnt look good or support your cause What’s there to dismiss? I explain, at length, what your hypothetical of Zimmerman lying to the dispatcher implies, and why it’s not plausible. You reply with this: > [@Tollhouse](#): > > Your argument is that he cant be lying, because that would mean he had to lie, (in order to lie) I can see how that doesnt make the murder defendant look very good. A wildly inaccurate, wildly insubstantial recap of my arguments that doesn’t actually _address_, let alone rebut, any part of it. What am I supposed to do with that? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12188 "2013-07-10T18:47:13Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > I dont want to be your kumquat, sorry. As far as stranger danger being no big deal, have you been balsy enough yet to called Erin Runnion to inform her that I am making too big a deal out of this issue? Would Erin Runnion even know who **Tollhouse** is or why you are discussing her daughter on an internet thread titled “Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread”? I would speculate that she would think you were trolling red herrings because you had run out of arguments about the TM/GZ case. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12189 "2013-07-10T18:49:44Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > As far as stranger danger being no big deal, have you been balsy enough yet to called Erin Runnion to inform her that I am making too big a deal out of this issue? You are _really_ having a problem with the difference between “statistically unlikely” and “impossible”, aren’t you, my sour persimmon? First, to answer your question, however illiterate it may be; no, I haven’t called those grieving parents to tell them that some person on the internet thinks that the statistical anomaly that was their child’s death is a big deal…largely because that would be unkind. Just the way that calling someone who’s child was killed by an elephant and saying “Hey, sorry about the bizarre statistical anomaly by which your child was killed.” would be unkind. But even though deaths by elephants do, in fact, happen, we don’t create huge campaigns to try to prevent them, because they’re _rare_. Which is why the stranger-danger paradigm is going the way of the “Satanic Ritual Abuse” idea and the " ‘Evil Orientals’ drugging our pure young girls and selling them into white slavery" idea died. Abduction by stranger isn’t as rare as death-by-elephant _, but it’s still exceedingly rare_\*…perhaps you can work out the analogy yourself? \*[Cite](http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_get_killed_by_elephants_every_year) > [@](#): > > According to Time (in partnership with CNN) : Zoologists today estimate elephants around the world kill 500 people a year. \*\*[Cite](http://www.nbcnews.com/id/8331335/#.Ud2qPazNmXo) > [@](#): > > Every day in this country about 2,000 children are reported missing. That means close to 800,000 kids are reported missing every year, but only 115 kids a year are victims of what is viewed as classic stranger abductions 115 out of 800,000 is a teeny-tiny percent. Do you remember our last lesson where we talked about percents? This is a case where they’re useful. PS: It’s spelled “ballsy”, ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12190 "2013-07-10T18:53:58Z")
Ok, …so you didnt let those parents know that child abduction is insignificant. You could email Erin Runnion to let her know her program that goes into schools is really not necessary ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12191 "2013-07-10T18:56:34Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Would Erin Runnion even know who **Tollhouse** is or why you are discussing her daughter on an internet thread titled “Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread”? > > I would speculate that she would think you were trolling red herrings because you had run out of arguments about the TM/GZ case. I dont think she would feel child abduction is a ‘red herring’ ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12192 "2013-07-10T19:01:04Z")
Trayvon was 17 being followed by a strange man in a car. Why do you think it a ridiculous notion that the very real issue of kids who have been molested or hurt/killed in that type of scenario would not have entered Trayvons mind? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12193 "2013-07-10T19:01:26Z")
Why don’t you care about elephant deaths, **Tollhouse**? I dare you to call [Mallappa](http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-06-23/bangalore/40146238_1_kolar-elephant-tamil-nadu-forest)’s family and tell them that elephant deaths aren’t a real problem that should be taught about in schools. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12194 "2013-07-10T19:08:31Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Ok, …so you didnt let those parents know that child abduction is insignificant. You could email Erin Runnion to let her know her program that goes into schools is really not necessary Ok,…so you didn’t understand my post. I’ll try to use smaller words next time. As an aside, if you think stranger-danger is so incredibly important, have you called up President Obama and threatened to harm him unless he devotes 3% of our gross domestic product\* to the StrangerDanger cause? Why not? Don’t you CARE about Erin Runnion? Hayter. Also? Have you considered the usefulness of the apostrophe as an aid to clarity in written communication? If not, perhaps you should. \*hint: before you assume “gross domestic product” means things like “rubber doggie poo”, look up the term and save yourself some embarrassment. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12195 "2013-07-10T19:09:48Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > I dont think she would feel child abduction is a ‘red herring’ I would speculate that she would think you are harrasing her by asking people to call her about what she thinks about your opinion in a TM/GZ trial thread. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12196 "2013-07-10T19:11:59Z")
Also, although child abductions by a stranger arent commonplace, they suddenly become relevant to a person when a situation occurs that looks like they might be in that position. So Feris your position that " well, what the hell, the issue of a stranger harming or abducting a child is rare, so its irrelevant" doesnt apply here. In other words, yes, thankfully harm or abduction by a stranger is rare but when a kid finds themselves in a situation where it looks like that is a threat, then it doesnt matter anymore that its rare. When a kid is being followed or approached by a strange man in a car, by your logic, the kid just says to themselves " this cant be happening, and Im not afraid, because afterall this type of thing doesnt happen very often" ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12197 "2013-07-10T19:13:07Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Why don’t you care about elephant deaths, **Tollhouse**? I dare you to call [Mallappa](http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-06-23/bangalore/40146238_1_kolar-elephant-tamil-nadu-forest)’s family and tell them that elephant deaths aren’t a real problem that should be taught about in schools. Zimmie put on a lot of weight, but he’s hardly an elephant. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12198 "2013-07-10T19:15:57Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I would speculate that she would think you are harrasing her by asking people to call her about what she thinks about your opinion in a TM/GZ trial thread. Mmm, I think any normal person would be able to see that I was making a point that child abduction IS important to those people it happens to. I have seen people say this sort of thing publicly, such as if a person doesnt think an issue is important, such as extra airport security to fight terrorsim, they should tell that to a family of a 911 victim ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12199 "2013-07-10T19:17:24Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Zimmie put on a lot of weight, but he’s hardly an elephant. Mocking Mallappa’s family’s pain, eh? Typical tactic of those who call elephant deaths a red herring. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12200 "2013-07-10T19:18:47Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Trayvon was 17 being followed by a strange man in a car. Why do you think it a ridiculous notion that the very real issue of kids who have been molested or hurt/killed in that type of scenario would not have entered Trayvons mind? Because he was a seventeen year old boy. A seventeen year old boy isn’t going to think “kidnapper” or “rapist”, he’ll think “mugger” or “hooligan”. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12201 "2013-07-10T19:23:45Z")
Or “creepy-ass cracker”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12202 "2013-07-10T19:28:12Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Mocking Mallappa’s family’s pain, eh? Typical tactic of those who call elephant deaths a red herring. Yes. Well done. Not that I cotton to \*\*Tollhouse’s \*\*theory, but comparing Zimmerman (who was skulking around in the dark following Martin) to a potential childm molester is order’s of magnitude closer to reality that comparing him to a fucking elephant. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12203 "2013-07-10T19:29:21Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Because he was a seventeen year old boy. A seventeen year old boy isn’t going to think “kidnapper” or “rapist”, he’ll think “mugger” or “hooligan”. Or “elephant,” apparently. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=609) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=611)