# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 617
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12324 "2013-07-12T00:54:28Z")
I’m sure it’s easier for you to dismiss people as racist when you can’t actually show they’re wrong (or, for that matter, racist), but you’re still wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12325 "2013-07-12T00:57:53Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’m demolishing your \*\*\*foolish assumption that people are glad Martin is dead because they are racist, \*\*\* Damn, the bizarro inventions are coming faster and furiouser! You know, if you aren’t sure what _anyone_ means, I think you’d be amazed at how helpful it is to read _ **all** _ the words, in order, not just the ones that jump out at you. Seriously, try it! And then, if you are still confused, you can _ **ask** _ for clarification! I know what you’re thinking: can something so simple and straightforward really work for someone like _ **me** _? Yes, little Steophan, it even works for someone like you! All you have to do is believe! ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12326 "2013-07-12T01:02:55Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Damn, the bizarro inventions are coming faster and furiouser! > > You know, if you aren’t sure what _anyone_ means, I think you’d be amazed at how helpful it is to read _ **all** _ the words, in order, not just the ones that jump out at you. Seriously, try it! And then, if you are still confused, you can _ **ask** _ for clarification! I know what you’re thinking: can something so simple and straightforward really work for someone like _ **me** _? > > Yes, little Steophan, it even works for someone like you! All you have to do is believe! Oh the irony in you clipping the second half of my post wherein I address everything you mention here. There, really, I have no words. Did you really just read the first sentence then post this? I actually can’t think of anything funnier, you silly, faintly pathetic person, with your desperation for being right. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12327 "2013-07-12T01:23:53Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’m sure it’s easier for you to dismiss people as racist when you can’t actually show they’re wrong (or, for that matter, racist), but you’re still wrong. Steophen, Or…for you to dismiss racism ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12328 "2013-07-12T01:41:00Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Read FreeRepublic lately? How about the people on this board whose opinion is “some people need killing?” The obsession with the watermelon drink? The continual resurfacing of nonsense about “lean” and street fighting? To deny that the reason people from across the country are throwing their support behind the defendant in one murder trial in Florida has a shit-ton to do with race is as willfully obtuse as…much of what Team Zimmerman believes about how head wounds work, I guess. Condescending Robot, I hear you completely. I am really disturbed even by some posters comments here in that regard, you know if tm was thirty and had followed some white kid walking home and shot him behind a building, these people would not take his word for what happened. Yet with fatso, they take his word for it without applying any real scrutiny. All he had to say basically was " I swear, thats what happened" , stating that " he cant be lying…that would mean he lied". As far as fatso goes, his total lack of regard or remorse for the fact he took the life of an innocent eleventh grade kid is too much. What is so disturbing but also goes back full circle to murder defendants mindset, is that at the end of the day he found out that whoops, he killed an innocent person…yet he shows not one iota of remorse ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12329 "2013-07-12T01:41:11Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Of course,\*\*\* I have to regularly make assumption_ **s about what you actually mean, as you post contradictory, illogical screeds that only barely hint at coherent thought, and then ignore or avoid any clarifying questions.** _ If you want to avoid people making assumptions \*\*\*about what you think, state those thoughts clearly and concisely. You know, if you aren’t sure what _anyone_ means, I think you’d be amazed at how helpful it is to read _ **all** _ the words, in order, not just the ones that jump out at you. Seriously, try it! And then, if you are still confused, you can _ **ask** _ for clarification! I know what you’re thinking: can something so simple and straightforward really work for someone like _ **me** _? Yes, little Steophan, it even works for someone like you! All you have to do is believe! Because you see, Little Steophan, we all have to take responsibility for our selves. In this type of case, the now-tired Facebookized saying is all too true: “I am only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.” You know that you do not “have to” make assumptions. You choose to. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12330 "2013-07-12T01:44:28Z")
> [@camille](#): > > The whole thing happened very quickly. According to Zimmerman, he was replying that he “didn’t have a problem” _at the same time_ he was reaching into his pocket. So why couldn’t Martin also be saying “you got one now” (or whatever, assuming this is correct) _at the same time_ as he was throwing the punch? No pauses on either side. Yes, that could be. Though, if Martin really did approach Zimmerman and say “You got a problem?” and “You got one now”, that indicates he was in an aggressive frame of mind and ready to throw down irrespective of Zimmerman reaching into a pocket. “You got a problem? You got one now” isn’t typically followed by the speaker turning and walking away peacefully. > [@camille](#): > > Why would you think it is more plausible that Martin punched him for no reason? I didn’t say that, and why would it be for no reason? Potential reasons for Martin to punch Zimmerman abound: shame at having run away, wanting to impress Ms. Jeantel, fear, offense at being questioned as why he was in the neighborhood, and impaired judgment from THC, to name a few. Those reasons are no less plausible than Zimmerman’s reasons to try to capture Martin. > [@camille](#): > > Why do you think Zimmerman (and his father) made it a point to mention “immediately” reaching into his pants pocket for a phone (and not finding it) just prior to the punch? Either because it really happened and Zimmerman was recounting it as part of the incident, because he recalled it incorrectly, or because he thought it made him seem committed to not harming Martin and instead trying to call police again. You believe that they said “immediately” so as to suggest that it provoked Martin? ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12331 "2013-07-12T01:47:19Z")
I gotta say though however it turns out, I thoroughly enjoyed watching the murderer get all sweaty and nervous yesterday when Judge Debra Nelson asked him if he would want to take the stand. When his feet are held to the fire its clear what a p…y he is. ---
**Author:** ![Mr-Pookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ed655f/32.png) [@Mr-Pookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr-Pookie)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12332 "2013-07-12T02:41:14Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I didn’t say that, and why would it be for no reason? Potential reasons for Martin to punch Zimmerman abound: shame at having run away, wanting to impress Ms. Jeantel, fear, offense at being questioned as why he was in the neighborhood, and impaired judgment from THC, to name a few. Those reasons are no less plausible than Zimmerman’s reasons to try to capture Martin. “Shame at having run away.” Big stretch. “Wanting to impress Ms. Jeantel.” Bigger stretch. “Fear” No doubt that is plausible. “Offense as why he was in the neighborhood.” Come on, man. “Impairment from THC.” Nope. Trace amounts of a relaxing drug in a kid who probably smoked a few times before. He wasn’t all hyped up on trace amounts. Zimmerman’s reasons for capturing his “suspect/punk/asshole/criminal” were stated very eloquently by Mr. Zimmerman himself on a recorded phone call just before he shot the “suspect/punk/asshole/criminal”. I’d say those self incriminating statements are more plausible than the “shame of running away”. His stated actions also show he pursued the “asshole”. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12333 "2013-07-12T02:52:40Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I’m sorry, how does any of these things give the the circumstantial evidence you need to be able to make a reasoned inference about one thing: did Zimmerman look for Trayvon? > > Zimmerman’s statement is direct evidence, not circumstantial. > The witnesses have _ **no** _ information about Zimmerman’s actions after the NEN call before they came together. > Where Zimmerman’s light and keys were doesn’t tell you what he did and intended to do as far as \*\*\*looking for Martin. \*\*\* > The location of the shooting doesn’t tell you what Zimmerman did and intended to do as far as _ **looking for Martin.** _ > The location of Martin’s phone doesn’t tell you anything about zimmerman did and intended to do as far as \*\*\*looking for Martin. \*\*\* > > That’s all I’m talking about. What is the evidence that tells you one way or another if Zimmerman intended to, or tried to, or did go looking for Martin? > > Not if found him. Not if Martin found him first. Not where they fought, who saw them fight, where they dropped things… None of those things can possibly tell you anything about that one, isolated issue. Are you sure you asked me what you intended to ask me? It was: > [@Stoid](#): > > What do you consider to be the evidence from which one would draw a conclusion about this fact, if they could? Nothing about circumstantial vs. direct evidence. And the location of the shooting and the lights and phones are evidence from which one could draw a conclusion as to whether Zimmerman was looking for Martin, albeit an imperfect one. If Zimmerman’s light and keys, and Martin’s phone, were found much further south by the townhouse, and if that’s where the shooting occurred, and witnesses heard the confrontation there, it would pretty well seal that Zimmerman pursued Martin up until the point of their fight. There’d be no other explanation for how Zimmerman could have gotten there, given that Ms. Jeantel places Martin at the back door of the townhouse. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12334 "2013-07-12T02:55:29Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > “Shame at having run away.” Big stretch. > “Wanting to impress Ms. Jeantel.” Bigger stretch. > “Fear” No doubt that is plausible. > “Offense as why he was in the neighborhood.” Come on, man. Why are these a stretch, exactly? Are you unfamiliar with young males or the honor culture, for one? > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > “Impairment from THC.” Nope. Trace amounts of a relaxing drug in a kid who probably smoked a few times before. He wasn’t all hyped up on trace amounts. THC impairs judgment. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Zimmerman’s reasons for capturing his “suspect/punk/asshole/criminal” were stated very eloquently by Mr. Zimmerman himself on a recorded phone call just before he shot the “suspect/punk/asshole/criminal”. I’d say those self incriminating statements are more plausible than the “shame of running away”. His stated actions also show he pursued the “asshole”. Don’t tease me, if it’s so clear, tell me the reasons, in depth. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12335 "2013-07-12T02:57:18Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > I gotta say though however it turns out, I thoroughly enjoyed watching the murderer get all sweaty and nervous yesterday when Judge Debra Nelson asked him if he would want to take the stand. When his feet are held to the fire its clear what a p…y he is. Most people on trial for murder are never nervous, that’s how you can tell Zimmerman is a pussy. I gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12336 "2013-07-12T03:05:05Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > …THC impairs judgment. Judging from all the fights I saw in college between potheads and alkies, you are right. Which was none by the former as they tend to be pretty mellow as opposed to the latter. “Dude, chill!” ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12337 "2013-07-12T03:06:33Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > I gotta say though however it turns out, I thoroughly enjoyed watching the murderer get all sweaty and nervous yesterday when Judge Debra Nelson asked him if he would want to take the stand. When his feet are held to the fire its clear what a p…y he is. Ah the brave keyboard warriors of the internet. I’d like to see how sweaty and nervous a p…y you’d turn into if you had to make a decision that may cost you the rest of your life. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12338 "2013-07-12T03:15:57Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Judging from all the fights I saw in college between potheads and alkies, you are right. Which was none by the former as they tend to be pretty mellow as opposed to the latter. > > “Dude, chill!” I’m right because it’s a true statement, irrespective of your experiences in college. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12339 "2013-07-12T03:17:02Z")
I like this version of the NEN call that someone posted (all credit goes to AghastinFL from comments section of [talkleft.com](http://talkleft.com)) Do you need police, fire, or medical? _Police, please._ Ok, sir. What is the issue? _Well, there’s this person…_ Ok… Can you describe this person? _He’s male._ OK… about how old is this male? _I exercise my fifth amendment right to avoid self-incrimination._ Huh? Ok, well is he white, black or hispanic? _I exercise my fifth amendment right to avoid self-incrimination._ OK, Can you at least describe to me what he’s doing? _I exercise my fifth amendment right to avoid self-incrimination._ You know, you’re really not being very helpful. What about this person makes you believe you need police assistance? _I exercise my fifth amendment right to avoid self-incrimination._ But you want me to send police anyway? _Yes, please, right away._ But you’re not going to tell me anything about this guy or why you need help? _No sir, I can’t tell you any of that without risking malicious prosecution._ ---
**Author:** ![Mr-Pookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ed655f/32.png) [@Mr-Pookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr-Pookie)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12340 "2013-07-12T03:24:12Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Why are these a stretch, exactly? Are you unfamiliar with young males or the honor culture, for one? > [@](#): > > THC impairs judgment. > [@](#): > > Don’t tease me, if it’s so clear, tell me the reasons, in depth. I am aware of young males. They make bad decisions a lot. They don’t usually start their murderous criminal careers [“your going to die tonight”] after a trip to 7/11 for skittles. Trayvon doesn’t lose “respek” (D Ali G reference) for not getting raped by a creepy guy. Nobody was “clownin” on Trayvon. He wasn’t a gangster according to all available information, was he? Jeantel told him to run(and he did) not exactly egging him on now is that? To put these kinds of assumptions on a kid who dressed the way millions of kids around the world do is not acceptable. If TM intended to ambush Zimmerman why didn’t he use the heavy can of tea in his pocket? Maybe he didn’t have time to get it out after GZ put his hands on him? "Trayvon wouldn’t reasonably be offended by Zimmerman’s questioning, in fact according to Zimmerman it was Trayvon (the kid) who opened a dialogue with Zimmerman. Why even talk if you are just going to start beating somebody? Weed smoked hours earlier will not have any effect on him other than to make him feel tired. Zimmermans 911 call was evidence of his motive not to kill Trayvon, but certainly to stop him and make him answer for his “suspicious” behavior. Zimmerman wanted to “get him”. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12341 "2013-07-12T03:25:41Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Judging from all the fights I saw in college between potheads and alkies, you are right. Which was none by the former as they tend to be pretty mellow as opposed to the latter. > > “Dude, chill!” Furthermore, the victim was tested but NOT the perp…so we really do not know whether perp was under the influence of anything that night or not. The thing thats disturbing is how team fatso jumps at anhthing and everyrything no matter how far a stretch. The thc levels found were insignificant, the defense conceded the level was just so low, so they didnt think it relevant to the case However even if he had moderate levels, thc is not really the drug of choice to go fight people, its more conducive to couch surfing and eating junk food and chilling out. But true to form, team z leaps at this as if pcp had been in the tox reports. But again, we do not know what the hell gz may have been smoking, shooting, or drinking that night, although I tend to think he is just naturally crazed and doesnt need to take anything, he has a history of violence as well ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12342 "2013-07-12T03:36:05Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Ah the brave keyboard warriors of the internet. I’d like to see how sweaty and nervous a p…y you’d turn into if you had to make a decision that may cost you the rest of your life. Oh, I see, so you are not using the internet…I would not go chasing after an eleventh grade kid in the first place, I would not do that. And the decision was not one that would " cost him his life", she was only asking him IF he would want to testify, and even told him he could have more time to think about it. Its not as if she dragged him onto the stand and forced him to testify. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12343 "2013-07-12T03:36:35Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > How about the people on this board whose opinion is “some people need killing?” I googled and can assure you that you are the only one bringing that sentiment to this thread. My speculation, a guilty verdict of any sort is a win for gun nuts in Florida. The asinine self defense statutes will remain unchanged until the next armed moron comes along. Acquittal will do more to improve safety in Florida than any SYG law or CCW permit. Acquittal will start an uproar over the asinine Florida self defense statutes and SYG, and with luck get duty to retreat back on the books. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=616) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=618)