# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 625
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12484 "2013-07-13T19:09:13Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > … **Now tell me I’m wrong** because I’m not entitled to believe GZ was lying through his teeth, or because I have the burden of proof, or because I stated my position with non-preferred sentence construction. Defending sentences and ideas until the point is lost must be tiresome. (Bolding and shortening mine) OK, you’re wrong because this case is not about SYG. It’s a case of self-defense. A SYG hearing in Florida would be held before a judge, not a jury. As far as I’m aware, GZ is still entitled to a SYG hearing but I don’t know what good it would do at this point in time. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12485 "2013-07-13T19:26:33Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > As far as I’m aware, GZ is still entitled to a SYG hearing but I don’t know what good it would do at this point in time. If he won it, he would assert his immunity from civil action over Martin’s death, and cause to take action against the police and State for arresting him and trying him despite his immunity. I’d be surprised if, assuming he is acquitted, his next step isn’t an immunity hearing. ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12486 "2013-07-13T20:31:48Z")
**Idle Hands** issued a note in another, related thread, and suggested a pit thread, so here it is: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=696431](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=696431) ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12487 "2013-07-14T02:47:55Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > In fairness to **stoid** , she has been pretty consistent in the threads > > I have to give her credit for a) having a better grasp of the English language, grammar, and syntax than many of the others in the debate, b) admitting bias consistently, c) being open about her dislike of firearms, and d) actually listening to those of us who have experience with firearms and concealed carry. > > She may not “get it,” but I’ve gotten the impression that she, at the very least, read the things I’ve said about training, holsters, concealed carry, etc., and didn’t just put her fingers in her ears and scream “LALALA” like others have done, and continue to do. Thank you, sir, I admire your courage in being willing to speak up and say this openly and I’m grateful. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12488 "2013-07-14T02:50:12Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > I have to say that Stoid has put up an impressive argument in the face of tireless postings by people who can not accept any other alternative. > > … > Hats off to Stoid and all who take the time to make this thread a great place to exchange ideas. I have honestly learned a ton from both sides of this debate. Thanks and me too! It’s been very edifying about many things above and beyond the case itself. ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12489 "2013-07-14T02:58:13Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Thank you, sir, I admire your courage in being willing to speak up and say this openly and I’m grateful. Ma’am, no thanks are needed. I don’t see it as courageous on my part to speak the truth as I see it. I fuckin’ disagree with you about the case, but you’re welcome for dinner anytime you’re in East Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12490 "2013-07-14T03:00:55Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > Ma’am, no thanks are needed. I don’t see it as courageous on my part to speak the truth as I see it. > > I fuckin’ disagree with you about the case, but you’re welcome for dinner anytime you’re in East Texas. Watch out, I might take you up on it! And be happy to have you if you make it to LA… ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12491 "2013-07-14T04:40:11Z")
I just hope that George Zimmerman can put his life together after having had to defend himself not only against a prosecution that presents practically no evidence for the crime, but also against a media that was strongly biased against him. The assailant’s own actions lead to his own death. George Zimmerman is innocent. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12492 "2013-07-14T04:57:43Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > The assailant’s own actions lead to his own death. The guy heading home with snacks becomes “the assailant”? Only when the stalker tries to keep him from getting home. ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12493 "2013-07-14T05:21:12Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > The guy heading home with snacks becomes “the assailant”? Only when the stalker tries to keep him from getting home. Yes. When he bashed George’s head on the pavement, he’s the assailant. When he hit him, he’s the assailant. When he straddled him and wouldn’t stop hitting even as George cried out for help, he’s the assailant. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12494 "2013-07-14T05:24:29Z")
[How many Zimmerman defenders are reacting like this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16471025&postcount=113), I wonder? And by a poster on this board, no less! ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12495 "2013-07-14T05:25:56Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > Yes. When he bashed George’s head on the pavement, he’s the assailant. When he hit him, he’s the assailant. When he straddled him and wouldn’t stop hitting even as George cried out for help, he’s the assailant. What really clinched it for me is that when the neighbor came out and shouted to the two on the ground to stop it, Martin didn’t even react to that and continued the “up and down motions of his arms” (that is, hitting Zimmerman). ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12496 "2013-07-14T05:34:04Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > What really clinched it for me is that when the neighbor came out and shouted to the two on the ground to stop it, Martin didn’t even react to that and continued the “up and down motions of his arms” (that is, hitting Zimmerman). What clinched it for me was when George Zimmerman was being questioned and the possibility that a video of the fight was available, George said “Thank God!”. This is a man who really believes that he had no other choice and welcomed the video evidence of the encounter (there wasn’t). If he had any doubt that video evidence will show him to be telling the truth about the encounter, he wouldn’t have been as relieved or as enthusiastic. ---
**Author:** ![Yadi\_Dipietra\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d26b3c/32.png) [@Yadi\_Dipietra\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yadi_Dipietra_1)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12497 "2013-07-14T12:37:56Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Some are entrenched in the assumption that Zimmerman’s actions are exactly in line with stand your ground laws. This was about simple self defence. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > When GZs statements and arguments are discredited by facts the opposing debaters claim it doesn’t matter because he is innocent until proven guilty. When an alternative claim is made based on the evidence the opposition claims it is just wild speculation and dismiss it. Facts that interestingly enough were never presented, detailed or even sometimes eluded to… > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > If an idea jumps those internet debate hurdles it is met with side debates regarding grammar, definitions, nuance, belief, and other silliness that confuse and hinder an honest discussion of what happened that night. This arises in any discussion. When people talk like Miss Jeantel, you’re damn right it’s going to be brought up. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > I realize the standard required by jurors actually on the case, and I also realize they are free to believe the facts as they see them. This, whether the self defense advocates like it or not, is the court of public opinion. If we could somehow get beyond these side debates about beliefs and accept opinions without the 5th degree there could be a truly fantastic debate. Of all the things to debate, this has not been a fantastic example of the subject content itself. If you are that intereted in law or specifically self defence or more to the point, self defense in Florida, that is commonly ‘debated’ daily, and has been long before anyone knew anything about Mr. Martin or Mr. Zimmerman. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Now tell me I’m wrong because I’m not entitled to believe GZ was lying through his teeth, or because I have the burden of proof, or because I stated my position with non-preferred sentence construction. Defending sentences and ideas until the point is lost must be tiresome. You sound bitter.. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > I have to say that Stoid has put up an impressive argument in the face of tireless postings by people who can not accept any other alternative. > [@BlakeTyner](#): > > She may not “get it,” but I’ve gotten the impression that she, at the very least, read the things I’ve said about training, holsters, concealed carry, etc., and didn’t just put her fingers in her ears and scream “LALALA” like others have done, and continue to do. Hmm, my opinion was their argument was entirely weak and far too emotional. It reminds me of people who cannot accept the fact that intelligent extra terrestrial life cannot exist - and that because of how large the universe, it impossible for there not to be -via simple odds-, life on other planets. They are so invested in the idea that no science ( the thing they say they use to prove such…) could speak to them otherwise. In the end all you see is a derranged individual hell bent on WISHING something to be true. Stoid has represented themself like the alter ego of Betenoire and I get the picture this individual shrieks instead of speaks. > [@BlakeTyner](#): > > It’s frustrating to continue to disagree on our beliefs about what happened that night, but I have to give her credit for a) having a better grasp of the English language, grammar, and syntax than many of the others in the debate, b) > admitting bias consistently, c) being open about her dislike of firearms, and d) actually listening to those of us who have experience with firearms and concealed carry. I wasn’t aware that having the ability to make or produce coherent sentences was some type of badge of honor. In fact ‘AFAIK’ it’s the minimum requirement… What gets me is that I remember the thread being penned by Magiver - never the less Stoid disappeared from it ages ago, I suppose due to no more interest in irrelevant and emotional attempts at throwing something to the wall hoping it would stick. Then they return nearing crunch time and decided to rehash everything. Meanwhile, the actual debaters on the subject of the law and those discussing facts, were here all along. I’m also surprised that they’ve allowed several threads on [what is effectively the SAME thing] to be started, when they quite clearly could be amalgamated into one. I point this out because the obvious next step in this saga, is to discuss civil law suits for both the Fulton family and the Zimmerman family. Why not rename this accordingly and direct all discussions here? > [@BlakeTyner](#): > > Fair enough, but vis-a-vis the underlined portion of the quote above, it’s been **Honesty** who consistently insinuates our bubbling racism. I don’t want to get too cross-thready (since I’m completely guilty of forgetting whether I’m in the trial or the speculation thread sometimes) but check out the “Michael Moore posts pic of Trayvon Martin’s body” thread for a little insight into _that_ one. Ah but you see the thing is, his ‘racism’ comes from a _justifyable place_ and that’s why it never goes punished. Meanwhile if you come from any other angle, you suffer consequences. Congratulations, 250 pages. We couldn’t have reached it without the wonderful involvement of both those interested in law and order, as well as the crazies who seek adoration and adulation over the internet. Thank you to the following : Betenoire Honesty Jack Batty Stoid You with the Face Trollhouse Monstro Sugaree Bricker Emeraldia Magiver Hmarvin Shodan Steophan Doorhinge Terr Hbns JoelUpchurch Human Action PatriotX P.S. There’s a reason they’re broken into two groups. If you couldn’t smell the bullshit, I guess you must be white. … … ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12498 "2013-07-14T14:13:59Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > [How many Zimmerman defenders are reacting like this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16471025&postcount=113), I wonder? And by a poster on this board, no less! That’s unfortunate. But even before the verdict, we had: > [@Honesty](#): > > Unfortunately, the sad reality is that most of posters are thirsty to see another black person shot and killed. Of course, they’ll jump in and cry foul, but they know it’s true. And by a poster on this board, no less! So what have we proved, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12499 "2013-07-14T14:29:27Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > What clinched it for me was when George Zimmerman was being questioned and the possibility that a video of the fight was available, George said “Thank God!”. This is a man who really believes that he had no other choice and welcomed the video evidence of the encounter (there wasn’t). If he had any doubt that video evidence will show him to be telling the truth about the encounter, he wouldn’t have been as relieved or as enthusiastic. What clinched it for me was the dispatcher call. when the dispatcher suggested George not follow, the wind noise stopped, his speech and breathing were normal, and he was just conversing with the dispatcher. How can you follow and stalk someone running away, while standing in one place for over four minutes? The prosecutors never explained it, and an impartial jury certainly would have noticed. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12500 "2013-07-14T20:57:12Z")
> [@Yadi\_Dipietra](#): > > Facts that interestingly enough were never presented, detailed or even sometimes eluded to… Denying and ignoring things doesn’t mean they cease to exist. And it’s “alluded”. > [@](#): > > Hmm, my opinion was their argument was entirely weak and far too emotional. It’s always interesting to me when the opposition expresses exactly my view of them, presented as their view of us, on this or any other topic. Interesting, but not mysterious. > [@](#): > > Stoid has represented themself like the alter ego of Betenoire and I get the picture this individual shrieks instead of speaks. You’re certainly entitled to your imaginings, of course, but a review of the threads reveals much more stamping and screaming on the part of some of my opponents. Speaking only for myself, this particular debate has never been an emotional one for me, because, again, I do not share any of the agendas, beliefs, or preconceived notions about how this particular case represents anything larger than itself. And the record of my postings proves it. It was just an interesting debate because of the extremity and intensity of opinion, and the hoops that were being jumped (on both sides) to get to where people wanted to be. I never felt much of anything around it, so my thoughts and participation have never been driven by emotion. My friends on facebook were having meltdowns about racism, and I tried, gently, to persuade them that it really played only the most minor of roles, but they were having none of it, to my dismay. hate it when my side gets strident and stupid. While I’m generally a true liberal in most ways, I have zero patience swith political correctness, or with denying plain truth to advance an agenda. > [@](#): > > What gets me is that I remember the thread being penned by Magiver - never the less Stoid disappeared from it ages ago, I suppose due to no more interest in irrelevant and emotional attempts at throwing something to the wall hoping it would stick. Then they return nearing crunch time and decided to rehash everything. Meanwhile, the actual debaters on the subject of the law and those discussing facts, were here all along. I’m not sure what this is supposed to prove about anyone, but in terms of your assertions about me: No, I disappeared from the board altogether for over a year because the Straight Dope particularly, and debate boards generally, have always been an irresistible lure for me to distract myself with. Since 1987 and BBSes. I’m actually much improved over the years, but still not cured. So in light of the fact that I have almost no impulse control whatsoever, it was not, and still isn’t, possible for me to participate “just a little” if there’s a lot going on. I’m all in, face first. And it’s a ridiculous time suck. So I had to pull all the way back. And I’m damn glad this is over because I need it to be… too much stuff not getting done in my real world. > [@](#): > > I’m also surprised that they’ve allowed several threads on [what is effectively the SAME thing] to be started, when they quite clearly could be amalgamated into one. > I point this out because the obvious next step in this saga, is to discuss civil law suits for both the Fulton family and the Zimmerman family. > Why not rename this accordingly and direct all discussions here? I’m with you on this. If there was going to be a separate thread just to track developments, I thought it should be in GQ to specifically preclude any debate, but \. > [@](#): > > We couldn’t have reached it without the wonderful involvement of both those interested in law and order… > > Thank you to the following… > > Stoid Yer welcome. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12501 "2013-07-14T21:36:06Z")
“The fundamental danger of an acquittal is not more riots, it is more George Zimmermans.” – [Jay Smooth](http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023246782) ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12502 "2013-07-15T14:11:21Z")
I was a heavy participant in the early parts of this thread, and wisely decided to stop participating in it long ago. This case and this thread in particular were about a lot of people wanting to argue about things relating to their innate sense or justice or right and wrong. The people who instead wanted to argue about the actual facts as they relate to a real world criminal prosecution have been repeatedly vilified for not looking at a set of evidence that was never conclusive one way or the other and jumping to the same conclusions. When the facts in a case in total, leave one without a clear idea what happened that’s a classic time when the jury must acquit, and they did. I predicted this something like a year ago, and now it has happened. Back then the only caveats I would add were that if more information was presented condemning Zimmerman, maybe he could have been convicted. Instead, the total evidence presented at trial painted no clear picture and really didn’t move the needle much versus what we knew back in the early months of the case. There are a few really good articles about this case up on _The Atlantic_ right now. The reason I mention them, especially to the side here that was so vehemently convinced Zimmerman was going to be convicted, is that they are all written by people much like yourselves. They are written by anti-gun, anti-Zimmerman people who think he did bad things that night and is essentially scum. But they also all conclude that hey, whatever problems with race were at play in Sanford and whatever bad stuff Zimmerman did the prosecution didn’t prove its case. That’s the reasonable way to look at this case if you’re one of those was was so vehemently convinced Zimmerman was going to be convicted. You can condemn Zimmerman and recognize the legal reality was simply a case that lacked sufficient evidence to determine what had happened when presented to a jury that is supposed to impartially examine it. [On The Killing Of Trayvon Martin By George Zimmerman - Ta-Nehisi Coates](http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/07/on-the-killing-of-trayvon-martin-by-george-zimmerman/277773/) [Law and Justice and George Zimmerman - Andrew Cohen](http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/07/law-and-justice-and-george-zimmerman/277772/) There are also compelling articles by people that after observing the case are still basically outraged, for example [this one](http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/07/george-zimmerman-not-guilty-blood-on-the-leaves.html), but they all share a common theme. They rely on historical references to lynchings and acquittals from long ago, and they are making sweeping pronouncements about society as a whole. None of them are effectively criticizing the legal outcome because it was never really in doubt. The simple reality that some people will never swallow is that whatever bad actions the Sanford Police Department took, the State and its executive branch took worse ones in deciding to start a criminal prosecution based on public outcry. If they had allowed this to be heard by a grand jury there is a great deal of likelihood that this case would not have been held, the State of Florida would not have spent probably a couple million dollars prosecuting a case they were never winning, and Martin’s parents would not have been deceived by an entrepreneurial lawyer and a sympathetic public outcry that the case involving their son had any chance of being resolved in a legal way that would be to their liking. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2013, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/12503 "2013-07-15T22:34:30Z")
> [@Yadi\_Dipietra](#): > > This was about simple self defence. > > Facts that interestingly enough were never presented, detailed or even sometimes eluded to… > > This arises in any discussion. When people talk like Miss Jeantel, you’re damn right it’s going to be brought up. > > Of all the things to debate, this has not been a fantastic example of the subject content itself. If you are that intereted in law or specifically self defence or more to the point, self defense in Florida, that is commonly ‘debated’ daily, and has been long before anyone knew anything about Mr. Martin or Mr. Zimmerman. > > You sound bitter.. > > Hmm, my opinion was their argument was entirely weak and far too emotional. It reminds me of people who cannot accept the fact that intelligent extra terrestrial life cannot exist - and that because of how large the universe, it impossible for there not to be -via simple odds-, life on other planets. They are so invested in the idea that no science ( the thing they say they use to prove such…) could speak to them otherwise. > In the end all you see is a derranged individual hell bent on WISHING something to be true. > > Stoid has represented themself like the alter ego of Betenoire and I get the picture this individual shrieks instead of speaks. > > I wasn’t aware that having the ability to make or produce coherent sentences was some type of badge of honor. In fact ‘AFAIK’ it’s the minimum requirement… > What gets me is that I remember the thread being penned by Magiver - never the less Stoid disappeared from it ages ago, I suppose due to no more interest in irrelevant and emotional attempts at throwing something to the wall hoping it would stick. Then they return nearing crunch time and decided to rehash everything. Meanwhile, the actual debaters on the subject of the law and those discussing facts, were here all along. > > I’m also surprised that they’ve allowed several threads on [what is effectively the SAME thing] to be started, when they quite clearly could be amalgamated into one. > I point this out because the obvious next step in this saga, is to discuss civil law suits for both the Fulton family and the Zimmerman family. > Why not rename this accordingly and direct all discussions here? > > Ah but you see the thing is, his ‘racism’ comes from a _justifyable place_ and that’s why it never goes punished. Meanwhile if you come from any other angle, you suffer consequences. > > Congratulations, 250 pages. We couldn’t have reached it without the wonderful involvement of both those interested in law and order, as well as the crazies who seek adoration and adulation over the internet. Thank you to the following : > Betenoire > Honesty > Jack Batty > Stoid > You with the Face > Trollhouse > Monstro > Sugaree > > Bricker > Emeraldia > Magiver > Hmarvin > Shodan > Steophan > Doorhinge > Terr > Hbns > JoelUpchurch > Human Action > PatriotX > > P.S. There’s a reason they’re broken into two groups. If you couldn’t smell the bullshit, I guess you must be white. … … ``` Would you correct your obvious intentional misspelling of my name? I think that is a violation of one of the rules because of your obvious implication. My name is Tollhouse as in the famous yellow bag. Thank you ``` [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=624)