# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 70
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1381 "2012-05-18T00:15:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Isn’t that in urine, though? In blood, it’s 5 hours. No? THC metabolites is 36 hours. I am not confident news reports know the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1382 "2012-05-18T00:17:03Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > A startling amount of ignorance being displayed in this thread about the effects of marijuana. > > The claim of Zimmerman being correct on the phone is just plain moronic. Just keep on blaming the victim, that drug-crazed reefer addict. I’m just trying to imagine the trial here. If Angela Corey uses Zimmerman’s comments that Trayvon looked like he was on drugs, or up to no good, and tries to say that is evidence that he was being **profiled** , a claim I believe Corey is using as part of her case, then O’Mara is going to respond like this: “Well ladies and gentleman of the jury, we have evidence of THC in Martin’s blood. We have medical experts who have indicated that THC is detectable in blood for only five hours. This indicates Martin was on drugs during the altercation, Mr. Zimmerman wasn’t profiling Trayvon, he was noting something that was true–that Martin appeared to be on drugs.” That’s my best Matlock impersonation, and I have no idea how a real lawyer would say it, but you get the gist of it. For some reason this issue keeps boiling down to people who want to play gotchas who want to imply that the “rationalists” in this whole thing genuinely believe that Trayvon Martin deserved to die because he smoked pot, or because he got in trouble at school, or because of some other reason. I don’t think any of us believe that, I know I don’t believe that. Do I think Trayvon Martin deserved to die? Absolutely not. But if he got into an altercation in which he was beating a man up, had a man on the ground, then he was in a situation in which the man on the ground had a legal right to use lethal force to defend himself. My position has always been it’s going to be a herculean task to convict Zimmerman, and aside from that I really have no fucking clue what happened that night. Everything that I’ve seen int he past few days to me, seem like things that make it more difficult to convict Zimmerman, not more likely that he’ll be convicted. No one is saying kids who smoke pot need to get shot, or that they’re bad kids. Hell I smoked pot as a kid, I’m sure a good portion of these forums smoked pot as kids. But to act like talking about it **because it will be brought up at trial** makes us monsters who think anyone who does pot deserves to die is simply a dishonest argument. The THC is relevant because it will be brought up at trial, and thus it is part of this case. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1383 "2012-05-18T00:18:35Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > THC metabolites is 36 hours. I am not confident news reports know the difference. I’m just reading your cite. It says 5 hrs in blood. A day and a half in urine. The reports say it was his blood that was used to detect THC. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1384 "2012-05-18T00:22:12Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > – Apparently the FBI identified the voice heard screaming for help in the tape and concluded it is **impossible** to say with certainty whose voice it was. You have Robert Zimmerman and the entire Zimmerman clan on record saying it sounds like their son. So to me, the voice screaming for help will do absolutely nothing for the prosecution at trial. You’ll have Martin’s family swearing it is his, and Zimmerman’s family swearing it is Zimmerman’s, and no scientific evidence to break the tie. Situations like that, where the evidence is inconclusive favor the defendant and not the State. Add to that the fact that Martin’s father listened to the 911 call, in the presence of the investigator, and told the investigator that it wasn’t Martin screaming for help. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1385 "2012-05-18T00:26:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m just reading your cite. It says 5 hrs in blood. A day and a half in urine. The reports say it was his blood that was used to detect THC. Most drug detection tests measure metabolites. I am not confident that is not the case here, and the reports are not conflating the two. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1386 "2012-05-18T00:29:30Z")
> [@treis](#): > > It was found in his blood, which typically only lasts a couple hours after ingestion. NORML says up to days > **[Marijuana Drug Test Detection Times - CaNorml.org](https://www.canorml.org/employment/marijuana-drug-test-detection-times/)** > > Drug Test Detection Times: summary for different drugs and detection technologies. [INDENT]Detection Time for Marijuana in Blood : Blood tests can detect presence of active THC; high levels indicate recent use, low levels may persist for hours or days.[/INDENT] ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1387 "2012-05-18T00:30:25Z")
I’m pretty sure Martin died to quickly for any bruising to develop. It requires blood circulation for some period of time after an injury. Boxers look 10 times worse the day after a fight. Others more knowledgeable may have cites. > [@PatriotX](#): > > The two things don’t match. > You said bruises on his knuckles. The article you linked to says broken skin. > > another article, [this one](http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/16/11736208-trayvon-martin-killed-by-single-gunshot-fired-from-intermediate-range-autopsy-shows) is a little more specific. But it’s in accord with the other article. > It also doesn’t mention the bruised knuckles. > > [INDENT]“The official report, prepared by the medical examiner in Volusia County, Fla., also found that the 17-year-old Martin had **one** other fresh injury – a small **abrasion, no more than a quarter-inch in size** – on his left ring finger\*\* below the knuckle\*\*.”[/INDENT] > > I suspect that M’s knuckles may have bruised. But I haven’t found confirmation that it happened yet. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1388 "2012-05-18T00:36:05Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Really? Drugs being found in his blood doesn’t mean he was on drugs? Are you really arguing that? Well, I am, sort of. Pot stays in one’s system for up to a month, long after any high is gone. Trace amounts could mean that he was on drugs earlier that day, or that he was on a whole lot of drugs for days in a row earlier that month. Seriously. X amount of pot in one’s system means a completely different thing than X amount of cocaine in one’s system, or even Y amount of pot. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1389 "2012-05-18T00:37:44Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > THC metabolites is 36 hours. I am not confident news reports know the difference. Seriously, do you even have a shred of objectivity left? Stop desperately searching for any explanation to support your side of the argument. It makes you look pathetic. Anyways, if you read CNN you will see that it says: > [@](#): > > Toxicology tests found elements of the drug in the teenager’s chest blood – 1.5 nanograms per milliliter of one type (THC), as well as 7.3 nanograms of another type (THC-COOH) – according to the medical examiner’s report. Another cite says: > [@](#): > > A concentration greater than 1.5 ng/ml would suggest marijuana use within a five hour time window, a time during which psychological and performance effects are known to occur. > **[NCBI | NLM | NIH](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/static-page/down_bethesda.html)** I’ve done some brief googling, and unless Martin was a heavy user, it’s likely he smoked that night. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1390 "2012-05-18T00:41:50Z")
Does any of the newly released evidence – which I have not seen – support the prosecution’s side to the detriment of the defense? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1391 "2012-05-18T00:44:36Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m pretty sure Martin died to quickly for any bruising to develop. It requires blood circulation for some period of time after an injury. This is not true. We already went through that. Bruises continue to develop after death. Once the blood vessel is broken the blood just seeps into the interstitial spaces. It can even start leaking out of the skin. People even bruise after their already dead. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1392 "2012-05-18T00:45:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Does any of the newly released evidence – which I have not seen – support the prosecution’s side to the detriment of the defense? I am suspecting that the most damning evidence will be Z own account of the events. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1393 "2012-05-18T00:45:56Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Called it. BFD. So he had grass in his blood. The problem was that his blood was all over the grass. An unarmed minor was murdered by some halfwit who thinks he’s Dirty Harry. And now all you right wingers are delirious because you think and hope and pray that he lives to kill again. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1394 "2012-05-18T00:46:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Does any of the newly released evidence – which I have not seen – support the prosecution’s side to the detriment of the defense? [There is this](http://abcnews.go.com/US/cops-witnesses-back-george-zimmermans-version/story?id=16371852): > [@](#): > > The documents start with a criticism of Zimmerman’s decision to follow the teenager, who Zimmerman said was looking suspicious. > > “The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement,” an investigating officer wrote. Let the minimizing begin. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1395 "2012-05-18T00:48:52Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Defense will show Martin had ample time to go home and avoid a confrontation. Why would they? He has no duty to retreat. He only can’t instigate a physical confrontation. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1396 "2012-05-18T00:50:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Does any of the newly released evidence – which I have not seen – support the prosecution’s side to the detriment of the defense? I have gone through the documents on scribd. The only witness account that was not public before was someone seeing two people running, one after another, not being able to tell who was after who. There is no explosive new evidence. Nothing really new except the autopsy reports and medical report on Zimmerman. I really do not see how the prosecution will manage to convict Zimmerman on anything. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1397 "2012-05-18T00:51:20Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > [There is this](http://abcnews.go.com/US/cops-witnesses-back-george-zimmermans-version/story?id=16371852):Let the minimizing begin. Well, perhaps this is minimizing, but I don’t know what the legal significance of that criticism is. Yes, obviously the encounter would have been avoided, but it’s not illegal to do what Zimmerman did, and doing it does not weaken his self-defense claim. > [@PatriotX](#): > > I am suspecting that the most damning evidence will be Z own account of the events. Me, too. If Zimmerman’s account is contradicted by the evidence, his credibility is hurt badly. In contrast, if it isn’t, I cannot imagine a conviction. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1398 "2012-05-18T00:51:49Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > [There is this](http://abcnews.go.com/US/cops-witnesses-back-george-zimmermans-version/story?id=16371852) That’s not evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1399 "2012-05-18T00:54:59Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Why would they? He has no duty to retreat. He only can’t instigate a physical confrontation. Absolutely correct. This is why it gets more important than ever for the prosecution to be able to show evidence that Martin did not instigate the physical attack, either directly or by showing Zimmerman’s version to be false. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1400 "2012-05-18T00:55:56Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > BFD. So he had grass in his blood. The problem was that his blood was all over the grass. An unarmed minor was murdered by some halfwit who thinks he’s Dirty Harry. And now all you right wingers are delirious because you think and hope and pray that he lives to kill again. I don’t exactly know how but it’s astonishing to me you just continually post random invective, based on no evidence whatsoever, over and over again, and rarely get called on it. I’m guess it’s because most people realize you are so far gone down the hole of extreme bias that there is no reason to bother. But I thought I’d note it is pretty incredible how partisan and extreme someone can be. I’m just glad I don’t live in your black and white world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=69) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=71)