# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 75
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1482 "2012-05-18T16:39:11Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I doubt that will come in, but if it does I don’t see it addressing the THC problem. Why is it a problem? Has Martin attempted to fly a plane since his death? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1483 "2012-05-18T16:44:22Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > What is the highest blood THC level you would be comfortable with in an airplane pilot where you are a passenger? Perhaps you should start a new thread all about that. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1484 "2012-05-18T16:46:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If you believe that breaking someone’s nose with a punch is impossible to do without inflicting more damage than that to your fist, I can assure that it is not. Fine, but what about the damage to your hands which comes from grasping at straws? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1485 "2012-05-18T16:49:09Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Perhaps you should start a new thread all about that. I don’t think it’s necessary. If you care not to answer, suit yourself. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1486 "2012-05-18T16:53:25Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Why is it a problem? Mainly for two reasons: First, it will undermine any attempt by the prosecution to portray Martin as a sweet innocent angel. Second, it will undermine any attempt by the prosecution to insinuate that Zimmerman was motivated by Martin’s race or otherwise did not have a legitimate reason to be suspicious of Martin. Zimmerman will be able to credibly testify that Martin was behaving in an odd fashion and this was the reason for his interest. Putting aside the legal or logical relevance of the THC in Martin’s blood, do you seriously deny that this is a significant problem for the prosecution? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1487 "2012-05-18T17:00:34Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > I don’t think it’s necessary. It is customary when you have random thoughts unrelated to the current thread. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1488 "2012-05-18T17:12:52Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Mainly for two reasons: > > First, it will undermine any attempt by the prosecution to portray Martin as a sweet innocent angel. > > Second, it will undermine any attempt by the prosecution to insinuate that Zimmerman was motivated by Martin’s race or otherwise did not have a legitimate reason to be suspicious of Martin. Zimmerman will be able to credibly testify that Martin was behaving in an odd fashion and this was the reason for his interest. > > Putting aside the legal or logical relevance of the THC in Martin’s blood, do you seriously deny that this is a significant problem for the prosecution? Yes, I do. I don’t think the prosecutors are saying “Damn! The victim’s capacity for fighting back was diminished by pot!” The victim’s character is irrelevant. I don’t give a shit if he’s as honest and clean cut as Jimmy Carter or spent half of his life stoned out of his gourd, he’s the victim here. He deserved to live his life however he wanted, until this lunatic murdered him. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1489 "2012-05-18T17:14:26Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > It is customary when you have random thoughts unrelated to the current thread. I will keep your suggestion in mind should I wish to express an unrelated idea. Thank you for your concern. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1490 "2012-05-18T17:15:57Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > I am suspecting that the most damning evidence will be Z own account of the events. This is probably true, based on the almost complete absence of anything else. Here’s how I see it. GZ naively gave repeated interviews to the police on the evening of and in the days after the shooting. Anyone who has followed any trials involving cross examination of witnesses (or who has read studies on memory) is aware that people’s memories are prone to minor inconsistencies and inacuracies, and skilled cross-examiners capitalize on this. And all the more so in the wake of a very traumatic event, and an event in which a lot happened very very quickly. So innocent or guilty, lying or saying the truth, there is little doubt that there are at least minor inconsistencies and inacuracies with something GZ has said at some point along the line. That gives the prosecution something to work with, and since their goal was to find some basis for an indictment, that was all they needed. Part 2 for the prosecution is the overcharging up to second degree. That puts GZ in jeopardy of some serious prison time, and a big incentive to plead guilty to manslaughter and a lower sentence. So my guess is that the prosecution is banking on these two aspects. Some combination of harping on inconsistencies and the threat of second degree, and you get GZ to plead to manslaughter and claim victory. [Ironically, the release of all this evidence which favors GZ could help the prosecutors, in that it will tend to sway public opinion to be more amenable to a more lenient plea bargain than they were at the outset, and might even make the Martin family and assorted rabble rousers more accepting of it as well, and thus give the prosecution more room to maneuver in this regard.] ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1491 "2012-05-18T17:18:21Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Yes, I do. Lol, what color is the sky in your world? > [@](#): > > I don’t think the prosecutors are saying “Damn! The victim’s capacity for fighting back was diminished by pot!” Nice strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1492 "2012-05-18T17:19:28Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I don’t know how much all that science “mumbo-jumbo” matters. The fact that he had THC in his system will be all a lot of jurors hear. Excuse me. But I lose my mind when someone comes along and says, “I don’t care about all that legal mumbo jumbo…” when the issue is the law. Here, the issue is science. If the defense makes an issue of the THC, the proseuction can easily cross-examine their expert or find one of their own to lead the jury to an understanding of this concept. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1493 "2012-05-18T17:20:29Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That gives the prosecution something to work with, and since their goal was to find some basis for an indictment, that was all they needed. They also need some basis for conviction, and it doesn’t seem like they have any. > [@](#): > > Part 2 for the prosecution is the overcharging up to second degree. That puts GZ in jeopardy of some serious prison time, and a big incentive to plead guilty to manslaughter and a lower sentence. Only if he knows he’s guilty of something more than the self-defense that is apparent from the evidence. Otherwise it would be really stupid of him to plead to get a 20-year sentence when the case against him is flimsy to the extreme. O’Mara seems to be reasonably competent, so I don’t think that will be his recommendation. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1494 "2012-05-18T17:22:26Z")
> [@enomaj](#): > > So Z suspects that M is high and armed but still gets close enough to get sucker punched. A former bouncer should be able to recognize signs of menace. Shoulda been backing up/ready for action as soon as “Do you have a problem?” But Z reaches for his phone to call 911 who he thinks never get there on time. How’s that conversation gonna go? > > “Yeah I found him. What do you want me to do now?” > “Oh. I thought not following was a suggestion.” > > Plus who expects a “criminal” to just stand there while you call for help? This “former bouncer” thing is absurd. Did he receive any training as a bouncer? What kind, and for how long? What kinds of experience as a bouncer would lead him to recognize “signs of menace?” Do you imagine he was first in his class at Bouncer Academy? Are you planning to product his finals thesis to prove he was an expert at threat assessment? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1495 "2012-05-18T17:23:57Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > They also need some basis for conviction, and it doesn’t seem like they have any. How about the post-incident text messages? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1496 "2012-05-18T17:25:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > How about the post-incident text messages? I haven’t seen them. Have you? If you prefer, I will change my statement. “They don’t seem to have any based on the evidence that has been released”. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1497 "2012-05-18T17:29:56Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The victim’s character is irrelevant. I don’t give a shit if he’s as honest and clean cut as Jimmy Carter or spent half of his life stoned out of his gourd, he’s the victim here. He deserved to live his life however he wanted, until this lunatic murdered him. **BobLibDem** is doing a great job highlighting the dangers of mob rule. I’m extremely suspicious of anyone who is confident in calling Trayon Martin a victim or Zimmerman a murderer. Anyone who can speak confidently about such a thing, given the contradictory facts we have, is coming from a place not based in facts but emotion–and that’s precisely why people like you have no place on a jury. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1498 "2012-05-18T17:31:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Excuse me. > > But I lose my mind when someone comes along and says, “I don’t care about all that legal mumbo jumbo…” when the issue is the law. > > Here, the issue is science. If the defense makes an issue of the THC, the proseuction can easily cross-examine their expert or find one of their own to lead the jury to an understanding of this concept. If I run over a kid and kill them and my BAC is .02, do you think jurors will have a negative reaction to me because of that? Yes or no. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1499 "2012-05-18T17:32:55Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I’m extremely suspicious of anyone who is confident in calling Trayon Martin a victim or Zimmerman a murderer. Any reaction to those who call GZ a victim, or TM a thug? ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1500 "2012-05-18T17:36:20Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Here is another cite: > > [http://www.idmu.co.uk/drugtestcan.htm#\_edn17](http://www.idmu.co.uk/drugtestcan.htm#_edn17) > > So 1/11 moderate users had detectable THC within 48 hours and none of the light users did. It’s unlikely that it was a residual THC, and much more likely that he had smoked that night. > > I usually don’t jam both of my hands wrist deep in my pockets and then just sit there for 4 seconds while I’m digging around for cash. And that isn’t the only thing he does. He makes a bee line back into the store to pick up something off teh floor and then starts wandering again. He looks suspicious, and given the low speed at which he was walking, it is just one more thing corroborating Zimmerman’s account. \*\* Last time\*\*: (1) He was likely a chronic pot smoker given the elevated amounts of carboxylated THC and (2) 1.5 ng/mL is not a psychotropic dose. You’d need 80 - 100x that amount. There’s no way he could’ve smoked immediately before the incident. Don’t take it from me, however, I just have three science degrees (two of them research-based degrees from top-tier, big-ten public institutions) as well as over 100 graduate and undergraduate college credits (combined) in biology, physiology, and neuroscience. I’ll patiently wait for a MD to chime who’ll undoubtedly agree that plasma concentrations of 1.5 ng/mL is not indicative of marijuana intake within the last 6 h and is well-below the concentration needed for to get high. In the mean time, this is what I suggest you do: 1. Read what half-life (pharmacokinetics definition) is. 2. Look up the half-life of THC 3. Look up how much THC (on a weight per volume basis) is in marijuana (Hint: 0.3 - 3%) 4. Look up how much THC is burned off during smoking (Hint: ~50%) 5. Look up bioavailability of THC of smoked marijuana (Hint: 10%) 6. Compare that number you get from #5 to the amount found in Trayvon Martin’s blood (1.5 ng/mL). 7. Close thy mouth - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/1501 "2012-05-18T17:38:47Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > If I run over a kid and kill them and my BAC is .02, do you think jurors will have a negative reaction to me because of that? Yes or no. Flawed analogy. If you get hit by a car and your BAC is .02 is it suddenly not the driver’s fault? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=74) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=76)