# Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 18, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125 "2012-04-18T04:41:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/161 "2012-04-20T17:11:03Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Ahh, so it’s more of a “take your beating sucker” position? More of a, try not to be such a pussy position. He put himself into this position when he got out of his truck to follow Martin. I don’t see anyting in this whole mess that tells me he was even close to a near death situation. He got into an altercation that was his own fucking making. And he pulled out a gun to end it. Ergo … pussy. ETA: and spare me the “its not illegal to get out of a truck with a gun,” bullshit too. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/162 "2012-04-20T17:12:45Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > More of a, try not to be such a pussy position. He put himself into this position when he got out of his truck to follow Martin. I don’t see anyting in this whole mess that tells me he was even close to a near death situation. He got into an altercation that was his own fucking making. And he pulled out a gun to end it. Ergo … pussy. Ah yes. He should act tougher like calling other people pussies on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/163 "2012-04-20T17:14:00Z")
At least I’m not shooting any body. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/164 "2012-04-20T17:17:05Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It’s not really relevant until it’s established who started the fight. Zimmerman has no defense if he shot Martin because he was losing a fight he started himself. According to Florida law, yes, he explicitly does. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/165 "2012-04-20T17:35:11Z")
The investigator also mentioned Zimmerman claimed he went to look at a street sign. His neighborhood only has three named streets. I find it very hard to believe he wouldn’t know the name of those streets. I can believe he didn’t know the address. It will depend upon the exact wording of his statement. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/166 "2012-04-20T17:38:37Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > According to Florida law, yes, he explicitly does. Give me more details then. I haven’t seen anything that supports your position. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/167 "2012-04-20T17:42:35Z")
> [@newme](#): > > The investigator also mentioned Zimmerman claimed he went to look at a street sign. I’m glad that it’s now been confirmed Zimmerman asserted this piece of ridiculousness, because up until today, I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/168 "2012-04-20T17:43:04Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > No it doesn’t. The rationale for dressing closed wounds is the same regardless of closure method. I can say this confidently as a vet. > > If Zimmerman had a gash on his head incurred from the ground or sidewalk, it would be pretty contaminated with dirt and other debris, even if it was washed as thoroughly as can be in the back of a police care. Closure is usually contradicated for dirty wounds because of the risk of infection. Well now I’m officially disagreeing with you, but you’re probably right to the extent use of cyanoacrylates with animals given the fur and cleanliness issues. Here’s a 2002 report from the Emergency Medicine Journal indicating no additional dressing is needed unless it’s likely to be picked at, for instance by a very young child. Here’s an article quoting a New England Journal of Medicine article indicating that cyanoacrylates act as its own dressing. Singer, A.J., Hollander, J.E., & Quinn, J.V. (1997). Evaluation and management of traumatic lacerations. The New England Journal of Medicine, 33, 1142-1148. Here’s an article from a wound care journal for nurses indicating cyanoacrylate dressings are more useful since gauze and bandaging are not required: [Abstract: Evaluation of a Cyanoacrylate Dressing to Treat Skin Tears in the Acute Care Population (2010 WOCN/WCET Joint Conference (June 12-16, 2010))](http://wocn.confex.com/wocn/2010am/webprogram/Paper5015.html) Last, but, not least, here’s a portion of a Google book, Biomaterials for Clinical Applications indicating no other dressing is needed (if link doesn’t work, it’s at p. 229): [Biomaterials for Clinical Applications - Sujata K. Bhatia - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=bXtaX468LRYC&pg=PA229&lpg=PA229&dq=use+dressing+on+scalp+lacerations+cyanoacrylate&source=bl&ots=kBii0nEL6T&sig=uYHxFoLAuGyx5VdSaPVv0Bam-hE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=s5aRT8iKPKm62wXCiYXnBA&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAg) ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/169 "2012-04-20T17:44:46Z")
> [@newme](#): > > New information which came out in the hearing today. I am paraphrasing from memory: > > \*Defense Attorney: Do you have evidence to refute Mr Zimmerman’s claim he turned around and was heading back in the direction of his truck? > > Investigator: No > > Defense Attorney: Do you have evidence to refute Mr Zimmerman’s claim that Trayvon Martin threw the first punch? > > Investigator: No > > Defense Attorney: Do you have evidence that contradicts any of Mr Zimmerman’s statements to police? > > Investigator: Yes\* > > We also heard there is a witness who saw “shadows through the window” of people moving about before the fight. They seemed to say someone was following someone else in the dogwalk area, heading north?? toward where the shooting occurred. Did anyone else catch that? This is the first I’ve heard about this witness. That is about what I remember. I’m bummed my recording didn’t work. Here is what the Sentinel says: > [@](#): > > State Attorney’s investigator Dale Gilbreath testified earlier. O’Mara questioned him about the probable cause affidavit he signed for the second-degree murder charge. Gilbreath said he did not expect to testify at the hearing. > O’Mara grilled Gilbreath on his use of the word “profiling” in describing Zimmerman’s behavior that night, asking why he used the term. Gilbreath said the term indicates that Zimmerman saw the teen, then formed an opinion of him not based on any facts. > > O’Mara asked Gilbreath about unattributed statements in several sections of the affidavit. > > “‘Zimmerman confronted Martin.’ Those words, where’d you get them from,” O’Mara asked. > > “According to one of the witnesses that we talked with, there were arguing words going on before this incident occured,” Gilbreath said. He said “confronted,” the word O’Mara took issue with, was one of probably 30 he could have used. > > Prosecutor Bernie De La Rionda then questioned Gilbreath. He asked is there was any evidence that Trayvon Martin shouldn’t have been in the neighborhood where the shooting occurred, or was breaking any law. Gilbreath said no. > > Gilbreath testified that there is video of Trayvon Martin buying Skittles and iced tea before the shooting. He also said that Trayvon was unarmed. > > **During further questioning by O’Mara, Gilbreath admitted that the state has no evidence who started the fight. There is also no evidence that Zimmerman didn’t walk back to his car after chasing Martin on foot, as the defendant has claimed.** > > However, he said that Zimmerman’s statements, as well as his description of the injuries he suffered, are contradicted by other evidence in the case. I was rather amused by Gilbreath’s answer to the question about the screaming on the recording where he actually mentioned the Orlando Sentinel. He also mentioned the FBI. It is pretty obvious that the prosecutor was unprepared about O’Mara’s questions about the probable cause affidavit. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/170 "2012-04-20T17:47:06Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > No it doesn’t. The rationale for dressing closed wounds is the same regardless of closure method. I can say this confidently as a vet. > > If Zimmerman had a gash on his head incurred from the ground or sidewalk, it would be pretty contaminated with dirt and other debris, even if it was washed as thoroughly as can be in the back of a police care. Closure is usually contradicated for dirty wounds because of the risk of infection. Actually, as a vet, maybe you wouldn’t mind giving the thread a brief overview of how wounds should be treated, start to finish. I for one would appreciate a primer, since my approach is “splash it with rubbing alcohol and put a Band-Aid on it.” As a medical professional, what would you expect to be done by EMTs at the scene? ---
**Author:** ![BottledBlondJeanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/0ea827/32.png) [@BottledBlondJeanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BottledBlondJeanie)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/171 "2012-04-20T17:50:44Z")
Sorry about that. Here’s the first missing article: [http://m.emj.bmj.com/content/19/5/382.full](http://m.emj.bmj.com/content/19/5/382.full) Here’s the second: [http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi\_m0FSS/is\_2\_9/ai\_n18609883/pg\_2/?tag=content;col1](http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FSS/is_2_9/ai_n18609883/pg_2/?tag=content;col1) ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/172 "2012-04-20T17:55:01Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Give me more details then. I haven’t seen anything that supports your position. It only has been cited in these Zimmerman threads a few dozen times. > **[Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799%2F0776%2F0776.html)** Section 776.041 Subsection 2(a) Apart from which, the prosecution during today’s hearings testified, under oath, that they have no evidence on who started the fight. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/173 "2012-04-20T17:58:23Z")
They also said that they have evidence in conflict with his statement. If we have verified lies about him going back to his truck, and about the ridiculous street sign excuse, then isn’t his whole story in doubt? How can we take anything he says with any credibility if his story has been proven to contain lies? If everything he did was on the up and up, then why lie to the police? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/174 "2012-04-20T18:00:34Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > If we have verified lies about him going back to his truck “During further questioning by O’Mara, Gilbreath admitted that the state has no evidence who started the fight. There is also no evidence that Zimmerman didn’t walk back to his car after chasing Martin on foot, as the defendant has claimed.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/175 "2012-04-20T18:01:43Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Apart from which, the prosecution during today’s hearings testified, under oath, that they have no evidence on who started the fight. No. Dale Gilbreath testified that he was unaware of evidence on who started the fight. That doesn’t mean other investigators are not aware of other evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/176 "2012-04-20T18:02:25Z")
ahem - "Defense Attorney: Do you have evidence that contradicts any of Mr Zimmerman’s statements to police? Investigator: Yes" OK even if we eliminate the going back to the truck thing from my post, the rest stands. Can you refute what I quoted here? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/177 "2012-04-20T18:02:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Actually, as a vet, maybe you wouldn’t mind giving the thread a brief overview of how wounds should be treated, start to finish. I for one would appreciate a primer, since my approach is “splash it with rubbing alcohol and put a Band-Aid on it.” > > As a medical professional, what would you expect to be done by EMTs at the scene? Good thing Zimmerman didn’t have a broken leg, or **you with the face** would say he should have been shot. Come to think of it, maybe she would anyway. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/178 "2012-04-20T18:03:57Z")
> [@BottledBlondJeanie](#): > > Well now I’m officially disagreeing with you, but you’re probably right to the extent use of cyanoacrylates with animals given the fur and cleanliness issues. Okay, I can concede that depending on the wound and its location, this particular product might not require any secondary dressing. But I still think none of this applies to Zimmerman’s situation. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/179 "2012-04-20T18:04:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. > > Dale Gilbreath testified that he was unaware of evidence on who started the fight. > > That doesn’t mean other investigators are not aware of other evidence. From the article: [http://m.jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012-04-20/story/george-zimmerman-granted-150000-bond-apologizes-trayvon-martins-family](http://m.jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012-04-20/story/george-zimmerman-granted-150000-bond-apologizes-trayvon-martins-family) “During further questioning by O’Mara, Gilbreath admitted that **the state has no evidence who started the fight**. There is also no evidence that Zimmerman didn’t walk back to his car after chasing Martin on foot, as the defendant has claimed.” ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125/180 "2012-04-20T18:06:23Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > ahem - > > "Defense Attorney: Do you have evidence that contradicts any of Mr Zimmerman’s statements to police? > > Investigator: Yes" > > OK even if we eliminate the going back to the truck thing from my post, the rest stands. > > Can you refute what I quoted here? “Refute”? That’s what was said. What’s there to refute? But you have no idea what evidence they have, how tenuous or strong it is and how much of Zimmerman’s statements are contradicted. All you managed to bring up so far is Zimmerman getting out to look at street sign. That’s _really_ relevant to the case, isn’t it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-humble-opinions-and-speculation-thread/619125.md?page=10)