# Martin / Zimmerman police angle **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 15, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583 "2013-07-15T19:19:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583/41 "2013-07-16T01:26:18Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > His point would be a “good one” if he could give some indication, even one news story, of a “young black man” ever being mistreated by the cops that came to investigate after he called them. One. Your comment here leaves me no choice but to say “omg”…sometimes there are no words…omg. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583/42 "2013-07-16T01:28:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Right. So if you ever feel threatened, the thing to do is leave someplace safe and go looking for whoever you feel is threatening you, punch him in the face, break his nose, knock him down, and then begin smashing his head on the pavement. What’s the problem? This is what the stand your ground law says, that you have no duty to retreat when some creepy Hispanic or white guy chases you in a truck when you are innocently strolling through your neighborhood. In fact, he was probably within his rights to shoot Zimmerman under the stupid Florida law. But you are probably rational enough to understand this, right? On edit: I did believe that Zimmerman was innocent under the law from the very beginning, but Trayvon could have shot him and been innocent also… this law makes it the wild west in Florida, fucking stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583/43 "2013-07-16T01:29:06Z")
I didn’t realize that in this day and age there were still large numbers of people who didn’t realize that many African-Americans feel differently than white people about calling 911. Seriously, people don’t remember Public Enemy? [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPNK0VspQ0M](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPNK0VspQ0M) What’s next, people believing Robert Zimmerman’s moronic claims about Trayvon using the phrase “homey” during the confrontation with his brother. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583/44 "2013-07-16T01:32:43Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Right. So if you ever feel threatened, the thing to do is leave someplace safe and go looking for whoever you feel is threatening you, punch him in the face, break his nose, knock him down, and then begin smashing his head on the pavement. > > Because if you call 911 they will just think you are another violent gangsta wannabe. > > Regards, > Shodan That recycled fairytale that the murderer came up with? The same guy who was dishonest with the judge, the same guy who is heard telling the 911 operator trayvon looks like a teenager, and later refers to him as that “kid”…yet in court he lies thru his teeth to tell Trayvons parents he didn’t know he was a teenager and thought he was in his late twenties…THAT guy? His word doesnt mean shit, sorry ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583/45 "2013-07-16T01:35:24Z")
[quote=“TriPolar, post:31, topic:663583”] Yes. But they don’t all do that. There wouldn’t have been any reason for some random guy to start following Trayvon. “Random guy” thought Trayvon was a suspicious punk. He said as much on the phone with the dispatcher. > [@](#): > > Nothing about the situation points to Trayvon starting a fight witha stranger. George Zimmerman admitted he didn’t identify himself as a cop or a concerned citizen or any other such thing. So he was indeed a “stranger” to Trayvon Martin. I feel it should be said yet again: There’s no evidence that Trayvon Martin started anything. People can choose to believe Zimmerman for whatever reason, but there is no physical evidence that indicates Trayvon Martin did anything wrong that night. Zimmerman being acquitted doesn’t change this. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583/46 "2013-07-16T01:36:55Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > What’s the problem? This is what the stand your ground law says, that you have no duty to retreat when some creepy Hispanic or white guy chases you in a truck when you are innocently strolling through your neighborhood. In fact, he was probably within his rights to shoot Zimmerman under the stupid Florida law. But you are probably rational enough to understand this, right? > > On edit: I did believe that Zimmerman was innocent under the law from the very beginning, but Trayvon could have shot him and been innocent also… this law makes it the wild west in Florida, fucking stupid. Good point, some dont seem to feel tm had many rights under the law…although I believe tm from the evidence only tried to get AWAY from scary man following him, your point is well taken. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583/47 "2013-07-16T01:40:10Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Your comment here leaves me no choice but to say “omg”…sometimes there are no words…omg. What, you can’t come up even with one news story either? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583/48 "2013-07-16T01:41:45Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > … punch him in the face, break his nose, knock him down, and then begin smashing his head on the pavement. … You forgot “blacken his eyes”. I guess “When seconds count, cops are minutes away.” just doesn’t apply to the unarmed. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583/49 "2013-07-16T01:46:08Z")
Wait, people actually need a cite that the police are likely to react negatively to black people when called? Does the name “Henry Louis Gates” ring a bell? And what’s all this about Martin reaching his home, and then coming back out? I missed seeing that mentioned in any of the accounts. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583/50 "2013-07-16T01:50:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wait, people actually need a cite that the police are likely to react negatively to black people when called? **Der Trihs** claimed that Martin was afraid that if he called 911, the police, when they showed up, would likely kill him or otherwise mistreat him. Or, in his words: “We’d likely be hearing about “young black man calls cops and is killed”, instead of “vigilante idiot kills young black man”; little difference from his viewpoint.” Henry Louis Gates didn’t call the cops, did he? So how is that relevant to this **Der Trihs** fantasy? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583/51 "2013-07-16T01:52:20Z")
Oops. Sorry. > [@TriPolar](#): > > Yes. But they don’t all do that. There wouldn’t have been any reason for some random guy to start following Trayvon. “Random guy” thought Trayvon was a suspicious punk. He said as much on the phone with the dispatcher. > [@](#): > > Nothing about the situation points to Trayvon starting a fight witha stranger. > George Zimmerman admitted he didn’t identify himself as a cop or a concerned citizen or any other such thing. So he was indeed a “stranger” to Trayvon Martin. I feel it should be said yet again: There’s no evidence that Trayvon Martin started anything. People can choose to believe Zimmerman for whatever reason, but there is no physical evidence that indicates Trayvon Martin did anything wrong that night. Zimmerman being acquitted doesn’t change this. ---
**Author:** ![Mr-Pookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ed655f/32.png) [@Mr-Pookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr-Pookie)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583/52 "2013-07-16T01:54:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wait, people actually need a cite that the police are likely to react negatively to black people when called? Does the name “Henry Louis Gates” ring a bell? > > And what’s all this about Martin reaching his home, and then coming back out? I missed seeing that mentioned in any of the accounts. Amen Chronos. We aren’t in Zimmerman’s criminal defense trial anymore. These wild assumptions about Trayvon that the defense advanced are not based on any sort of facts. They must be substantiated or I get to say Zimmerman trolled the backyards for Tayvon, flushed him out, and tried to physically restrain Trayvon prior to the punch by TM in self defense. Yep, that is how it happened. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583/53 "2013-07-16T01:56:45Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > “Random guy” thought Trayvon was a suspicious punk. He said as much on the phone with the dispatcher. I meant that from Trayvon’s point of view there was no reason for this guy to be following him around. ---
**Author:** ![Mr-Pookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ed655f/32.png) [@Mr-Pookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr-Pookie)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583/54 "2013-07-16T02:10:33Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > **Der Trihs** claimed that Martin was afraid that if he called 911, the police, when they showed up, would likely kill him or otherwise mistreat him. Or, in his words: “We’d likely be hearing about “young black man calls cops and is killed”, instead of “vigilante idiot kills young black man”; little difference from his viewpoint.” > > Henry Louis Gates didn’t call the cops, did he? So how is that relevant to this **Der Trihs** fantasy? Your question is flawed, Terr. You should be looking for reasons black people don’t trust the police in general terms. Calling 911 is calling the police indirectly. I would submit 200 years worth of terrible abuses by various local, state and federal agencies as examples. Let’s move beyond your question, because cases like Henry Louis Gates is certainly applicable to the thread authors’ premise. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583/55 "2013-07-16T02:25:20Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Your question is flawed, Terr. You should be looking for reasons black people don’t trust the police in general terms. Calling 911 is calling the police indirectly. And if there is even one example brought where a “young black man” (or an old one, whatever) called 911 and police came and killed him, I would admit there was a somewhat rational reason for Martin to be afraid to call 911. So far no one can find even one such event. Henry Louis Gates’ example is ridiculous. I am white. Around '84 I stayed with a friend (also white) and when I came home one night, forgetting the keys at home, and knocked on the door, he wouldn’t answer (was deeply asleep). So I went around back and opened the kitchen window and climbed in. Neighbor saw, police were called, and treated it appropriately as a possible break-in (I woke up the friend and he explained). Both I and the friend were as polite as possible to the police. They got the explanation and left. I bet you if I or my friend acted indignant or mouthed off to the police during the incident, we would have spent the night in jail. Were the police racist responding to the neighbor’s call and investigating (one of the cops was black, BTW)? ---
**Author:** ![Mr-Pookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ed655f/32.png) [@Mr-Pookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr-Pookie)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583/56 "2013-07-16T02:33:04Z")
Technically you are right. In most instances of the police overstepping against innocent people(white or black) it is by mistake, or the victim was in some way abusive to the police. But It is just as important how these police incidents are perceved by minorities. Not so much what actually happened. A person may have seen and heard about such abuses (right or wrong) and then choose not to engage the police during a seemingly minor thing such as this was supposed to be. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583/57 "2013-07-16T02:33:04Z")
(Withdrawn) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583/58 "2013-07-16T02:35:16Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Amen Chronos. We aren’t in Zimmerman’s criminal defense trial anymore. These wild assumptions about Trayvon that the defense advanced are not based on any sort of facts. They must be substantiated or I get to say Zimmerman trolled the backyards for Tayvon, flushed him out, and tried to physically restrain Trayvon prior to the punch by TM in self defense. > > Yep, that is how it happened. Ok, where are we? A civil trial? A federal criminal trial? Just shooting the shit over a virtual small batch bourbon? What framework do you propose? For example, if this were a criminal trial of Martin for battery, we’d have Martin’s words to weigh against those of his alleged victim. And we’d need proof beyond a reasonable doubt before we convicted him. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583/59 "2013-07-16T02:38:16Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > But It is just as important how these police incidents are perceved by minorities. Not so much what actually happened. As I said, if Martin had an \*\*irrational \*\*fear of calling 911, that’s his problem and does not point to any societal wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583/60 "2013-07-16T02:40:01Z")
> [@](#): > > Henry Louis Gates didn’t call the cops, did he? So how is that relevant to this Der Trihs fantasy? No, he didn’t, but I’d still call “black man arrested for entering his own home” very relevant to the attitudes many black men have towards the police. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martin-zimmerman-police-angle/663583.md?page=4)