# Martinis: I drink 'em with Vodka. Feels wrong. Gin-educate me. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** liquor-alcohol\ **Created:** [June 8, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755 "2011-06-08T16:50:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/21 "2011-06-08T19:15:39Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’ll go slightly against the grain and recommend the standard Bombay Dry Gin _not_ Sapphire. > > ETA: Plymouth is also a good martini gin. Oh good gods, I hate Bombay Sapphire. All right, “hate” is too strong a word which should be reserved for the likes of Seagrams or Jack Daniels, but I certainly don’t get what all the hoopla is about, and prefer Bombay Original to Sapphire greatly. Sapphire has always struck me as one of those bland things that people think they’re supposed to like, so they like. Of course, I am not accusing anyone here of such a thing, as all Dopers are of endless taste and sophistication. You, my friend, are also correct about Plymouth. Tis an excellent gin. > [@bump](#): > > I suspect that a little dilution is intended in a good martini, but aeration isn’t. Which is why James Bond’s “shaken, not stirred” has to be said, since martinis are traditionally stirred. Mr. Bond may be the quintessential sexy man-beast, but he doesn’t know shit about martinis. He also orders them with vodka. Anyhoo, as much as I love Hendrick’s (oh, and I do mean love) I don’t think the cucumber flavoring makes for a good martini. I say you can’t go wrong ordering a Plymouth martini, but most bars I go to (apparently too low brow?) do not have it. If I spot the blue label, though, it is so on. Boodles is also another gin of which I am a fan, but is not readily available most places. But if you’re in your standard bar/restaurant and don’t feel like inquiring about their gin selection (though there’s nothing wrong with that - I often ask before ordering a cocktail) my personal choice that I’m fairly certain will be available is Original Bombay. Mileage clearly varies, but I’m right and they’re wrong. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/22 "2011-06-08T19:16:08Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > I just saw this. :eek: > > You want ice. You NEED ice. Ice is intergral to the martini experience. It’s those little slivers of ice that float through the strainer that open up all the beautiful flavors of the gin and make it a martini! > > Next you are going to tell me that you just open a bottle of vermouth and place it next to the glass. That isn’t a martini, it’s gin straight up with an olive. > > For anyone who has never had a proper matini (made with gin and both vermouth AND ICE!) try one. They are very good. Eh. I know martinis are supposed to have ice. I just find them weak and watery. Yes, I use vermouth. I like 'em dry, so I don’t use much vermouth, but it’s there. I just don’t find water to be a satisfactory addition to any drink. Maybe I’m just weird. Of course, I also garnish my martini with a jalapeno, so that’s probably just confirmation of my weirdness. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/23 "2011-06-08T19:17:40Z")
I prefer Beefeaters to any other gin. Very underrated, very aromatic, and the best martini gin I’ve had. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/24 "2011-06-08T19:21:36Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I suspect that a little dilution is intended in a good martini, but aeration isn’t. Which is why James Bond’s “shaken, not stirred” has to be said, since martinis are traditionally stirred. Martini-type cocktails are traditionally 3:1 or 4:1 hard liquor (gin, vodka, bourbon, rye, or scotch whiskies) to vermouth or other fortified wine (less, perhaps for sweet vermouths as with a Manhattan). The practice of ordering martinis “dry” is a more recent invention. The same is true for the “ice slick” that comes from shaking a martini. Cocktails were traditionally served as party drinks and were mixed in a pitcher and gently stirred with ice. The aggressive shaking of a cocktail mixer is also a recent thing, combing about in the 'Eighties and likely popularized by certain movies of that era that shall remain nameless. A good martini should be chilled, but not ice cold, particularly gin or whiskey based martinis in which the freezing temperature subsumes the sweetness and leaves only a sharp bitter flavor. As for gins, my preference is Quintessential, but I’ve never found it in a bar. I’m more than happy with Beefeater, despite it being snubbed by the overrated Bombay Sapphire crowd, and have never found Tanqueray to be suitable for anything but gin & tonic. Plymouth is okay although I’ve never seen what the die-hard appeal is, and New Amsterdam is just too citrus-y for my taste. There are hundreds of different gins, though, so my recommendation to the o.p. is to find a bar that stocks a good selection and try them out (not all at the same time). Stranger ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/25 "2011-06-08T19:25:03Z")
What on earth is a whiskey-based martini? Do you mean a manhattan? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/26 "2011-06-08T19:26:29Z")
BTW, there is nothing wrong with drinking a VODKA Martini, if you like it. But you don’t really need to go all Grey Goose on it. But definitely try a (Gin) Martini, they are different drinks and you may find you like both. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/27 "2011-06-08T19:28:12Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Mr. Bond may be the quintessential sexy man-beast, but he doesn’t know shit about martinis. He also orders them with vodka. And he drinks Gordon’s Gin, which maybe was better in the 50s than it is now, but I suspect not. Have you ever tried a Vesper (the drink that got shorthanded down to Vodka Martini Shaken Not Stirred in the movies?) I haven’t (never think about it when I am making drinks) but they seem interesting. Not a martini, but it does have gin. “Three measures of Gordon’s, one of vodka, half a measure of Kina Lillet. Shake it very well until it’s ice-cold, then add a large thin slice of lemon peel. Got it?” Serve it in a very deep Champagne goblet rather than a martini glass. I figure you would sub a sweet vermouth for Kina Lillet in most situations. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/28 "2011-06-08T19:33:33Z")
I’ve had Vespers, both in bars and made at home. Very nice. Of course, I’m ambidextrous in that I like both vodka and gin martinis, based on my mood (and the season). ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/29 "2011-06-08T19:40:53Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > I’ve had Vespers, both in bars and made at home. Very nice. Of course, I’m ambidextrous in that I like both vodka and gin martinis, based on my mood (and the season). I don’t have and Vodka in the house right now, but I am going to have to make one when I get some. The idea of a Gin and Vodka martini is an appealing one. [The Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesper_%28cocktail%29)page actually has suggestions for translating the drink to modern day ingredients. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/30 "2011-06-08T19:42:40Z")
Hmm, Vesper, you say? No, but I sure am in the mood to try one. This is cold drink weather. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/31 "2011-06-08T19:51:31Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > The Hendricks website recommends garnishing with a cucumber slice, which I tried once at home and it was fine, but I don’t know of any bars that keep cucumber garnishes on hand. The Gordon Biersch place not far from my office does cucumber garnishes–at least, I’ve had one on an oddly appealing drink they call a “Geisha” (but which is not like any drink I’ve encountered by that name elsewhere). It consists of lemonade, lychee liqueur, sake-infused vodka, and a cucumber slice. For a classic martini, they default to Sapphire, but they have Hendrick’s; I imagine they would have no trouble providing me with a Hendrick’s martini with a slice instead of an olive. I could drop by at happy hour and ask. Y’know, for the sake of science. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/32 "2011-06-08T19:56:24Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > What on earth is a whiskey-based martini? Do you mean a manhattan? Manhattans and Rob Roys are classified as “martini-type” cocktails, in that they are a liquor, a fortified wine, and optional bitters (in the case of a Manhattan), served in a cocktail glass with a single garnish. You obviously wouldn’t walk into a bar and order a “Scotch martini”, but that is in essence what a Rob Roy is. > [@NAF1138](#): > > “Three measures of Gordon’s, one of vodka, half a measure of Kina Lillet. Shake it very well until it’s ice-cold, then add a large thin slice of lemon peel. Got it?” > > Serve it in a very deep Champagne goblet rather than a martini glass. I figure you would sub a sweet vermouth for Kina Lillet in most situations. The closest thing is Lillet Blanc with a dash of bitters or quinine, though author Kingsley Amis (Bond aficionado and the author of the first authorized non-Fleming Bond novel, _Colonel Sun_, under the pen name Richard Markham) opined that the bitterness would be inappropriate and that plain Lillet Dry (now Lillet Blanc) would be used. I’ve made the recipe with Quintessential, Blue Ice vodka, and Lillet Blanc, and tend to agree with Amis about dispensing with the bitters, though I prefer it to be equal proportions of vodka and gin. It is not, however, a proper martini any more than a Cosmopolitan or “fruitini” drinks are. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/33 "2011-06-08T20:01:54Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > It is not, however, a proper martini any more than a Cosmopolitan or “fruitini” drinks are. > > Stranger True. But it sounds much more interesting that most of the fruitini’s (and I like Cosmo’s, don’t tell anyone.) ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/34 "2011-06-08T20:16:55Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I prefer Beefeaters to any other gin. Very underrated, very aromatic, and the best martini gin I’ve had. Seconded. Beefeaters is a good all-around go-to Gin. It’s a top shelf gin, though, and can get expensive. Gilbey’s is a pretty good mid-shelf substitute. The best gin for martinis I have found is Citadelle. If you can find it, order it. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/35 "2011-06-08T21:11:03Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Does the thought of Hendrick’s plus tons of olive juice squick anyone else out? And I prefer to taste the cucumber, which makes it better with cucumber garnish or a Gibson. I also like Hendrick’s Collins etc. I can’t explain it, it’s just what I like. 🙂 If the bar doesn’t have Hendricks (and most around here seem to have it) I’ll go with Bombay Sapphire and enjoy it as well. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/36 "2011-06-08T21:17:54Z")
mmmm I like Gin; I always have. I think us gin drinkers are going by the wayside. I’m surprised I didn’t see Boodle’s Gin mentioned here; it’s not too bad. Like others, I like Sapphire for its smoothness; but Tanqueray has a distinct flavor to it; that I really like. A thread on gin can’t go on without a mention of this article in Forbes about Gin: [http://www.forbes.com/2006/03/13/diageo-allied-gin-cx\_np\_0314featC\_LS.html](http://www.forbes.com/2006/03/13/diageo-allied-gin-cx_np_0314featC_LS.html) ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/37 "2011-06-08T21:21:01Z")
> [@Enright3](#): > > I’m surprised I didn’t see Boodle’s Gin mentioned here; it’s not too bad. Psst. Post #21. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/38 "2011-06-09T01:06:23Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I prefer Beefeaters to any other gin. Very underrated, very aromatic, and the best martini gin I’ve had. Beefeaters is a solid gin, indeed. I was going to mention it along with Plymouth, but lost my train of thought. Perhaps the rye I’ve been sipping on all afternoon has something to do with that… ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/39 "2011-06-09T01:32:42Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The aggressive shaking of a cocktail mixer is also a recent thing, combing about in the 'Eighties and likely popularized by certain movies of that era that shall remain nameless. A good martini should be chilled, but not ice cold, particularly gin or whiskey based martinis in which the freezing temperature subsumes the sweetness and leaves only a sharp bitter flavor. Shaking martinis is relatively new, but cocktails have always been shaken vigorously, even back in the “Golden Age” leading up to Prohibition. How else were they going to get those egg whites and stuff like that mixed in good? All that movie did is make throwing the shakers and bottles around seem cool. Martinis were (and should be) stirred, primarily because they were supposed to be clear, and shaking introduces ice and air to the drink, both of which make it less than crystal clear. This is based on my readings of Wondrich’s “Imbibe” (modern-day rework of Thomas’ “How to Mix Drinks”), Berry’s “Intoxica” and “Grog Log” (both collections of 1950s and 1960s tiki drinks) and DeGroff’s “Craft of the Cocktail”, which is a modern-day cocktail manual with some history thrown in. Oh, and whoever mentioned Boodles is spot on… it’s an extremely close second to Plymouth in my book. I’d just forgotten. ---
**Author:** ![Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@Swords\_to\_Plowshares](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swords_to_Plowshares)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/40 "2011-06-09T01:49:09Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > The Hendricks website recommends garnishing with a cucumber slice, which I tried once at home and it was fine, but I don’t know of any bars that keep cucumber garnishes on hand. Odd. Every bar I know that carries Hendrick’s (and there are several within stumbling distance) has some specialty cocktail with Hendrick’s that involves cucumber garnishes, so surely you could get one in a martini. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755.md?page=3)