# Martinis: I drink 'em with Vodka. Feels wrong. Gin-educate me. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** liquor-alcohol\ **Created:** [June 8, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755 "2011-06-08T16:50:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/41 "2011-06-09T01:58:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’ve never understood how vodka drinks are considered “martinis” at all. I mean, the gin (or vodka) is the overwhelming majority of the drink. Is there anything a gin martini and a vodka martini have in common, besides a splash of vermouth and being served in a conical glass with a stem? Exactly, a martini has gin and vermouth. A cocktail with vodka and vermouth is a kangaroo. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/42 "2011-06-09T02:57:32Z")
Note that few can taste anything in vodkas once you get up to Smirnoff in quality. Grey Goose actually rates lower almost every blind test. Cool bottle, tho. ---
**Author:** ![diku](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@diku](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diku)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/43 "2011-06-09T03:25:05Z")
Can’t really add anything to the Hendrick’s and Bombay Sapphire love, but I will say that Hendricks makes a fantastic Tom Collins. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/44 "2011-06-09T03:29:07Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Psst. Post #21. Dang it! I hate it when I do that! ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/45 "2011-06-09T03:31:50Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Shaking martinis is relatively new, but cocktails have always been shaken vigorously, even back in the “Golden Age” leading up to Prohibition. How else were they going to get those egg whites and stuff like that mixed in good? All that movie did is make throwing the shakers and bottles around seem cool. > > Oh, and whoever mentioned Boodles is spot on… it’s an extremely close second to Plymouth in my book. I’d just forgotten. ~sigh~ I’d like to say it was me… but alas post 21 usurped me. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/46 "2011-06-09T04:41:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Note that few can taste anything in vodkas once you get up to Smirnoff in quality. Grey Goose actually rates lower almost every blind test. Cool bottle, tho. I’m not much of a vodka drinker. I don’t care about vodka at all. Don’t see the point. That said, my family is Polish and full of vodka drinkers. Not a single one is particularly enamored with Grey Goose. For cheap(er) vodka, in my family, it’s Tanqueray Sterling. For decent vodka, it’s Chopin. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/47 "2011-06-09T06:05:28Z")
I disagree with the notion that shaking a martini is a new thing. William Powell did an entire thesis on how to shake a martini in “The Thin Man,” which came out in 1934. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/H1tnbPBCtnI/hqdefault.jpg "Nick and Nora - Alcohol moments") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1tnbPBCtnI) “Would you like a drink?” “It’s a bit early, isn’t it?” “Too early for a drink?” “No! Too early for stupid questions! Of course I want a drink!” ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/48 "2011-06-09T07:34:32Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The closest thing is Lillet Blanc with a dash of bitters or quinine, though author Kingsley Amis (Bond aficionado and the author of the first authorized non-Fleming Bond novel, _Colonel Sun_, under the pen name Richard Markham) opined that the bitterness would be inappropriate and that plain Lillet Dry (now Lillet Blanc) would be used. Word on the street is that Cocchi Americano is currently the best substitute for Kina Lillet. It’s _good_ stuff–try a glass of it with a few ice cubes. Commentary from Toby Cecchini: [http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/21/case-study-cocchi-americano-waking-the-dead/](http://tmagazine.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/21/case-study-cocchi-americano-waking-the-dead/) ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/49 "2011-06-09T12:16:06Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Exactly, a martini has gin and vermouth. A cocktail with vodka and vermouth is a kangaroo. My name is **Maus Magill** , and I approve this message. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/50 "2011-06-09T18:27:54Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > And he drinks Gordon’s Gin, which maybe was better in the 50s than it is now, but I suspect not. Have you ever tried a Vesper (the drink that got shorthanded down to Vodka Martini Shaken Not Stirred in the movies?) > > I haven’t (never think about it when I am making drinks) but they seem interesting. Not a martini, but it does have gin. > > “Three measures of Gordon’s, one of vodka, half a measure of Kina Lillet. Shake it very well until it’s ice-cold, then add a large thin slice of lemon peel. Got it?” > > Serve it in a very deep Champagne goblet rather than a martini glass. I figure you would sub a sweet vermouth for Kina Lillet in most situations. I assumed by “measure” he meant “shot”. In which case, yipes - four and a half shots, before dinner. Then he plays high stakes baccarat. In the book _Moonraker_ Bond gets more or less plastered and then takes benzedrine. And then plays bridge. His liver must have been charred to ashes by 1965 or so. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/51 "2011-06-09T21:15:18Z")
“Measure” just means “equal parts.” He’s giving you the relative proportions. You can make it as big or small as you like. ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/52 "2011-06-09T21:16:57Z")
> [@xkit0katx](#): > > Well, my dad has a penchant for dirty gin martinis. He always gets them made with Bombay Sapphire gin. +1, and I say “very” dirty. Otherwise it is too plain. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/53 "2011-06-09T21:42:02Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > “Measure” just means “equal parts.” He’s giving you the relative proportions. You can make it as big or small as you like. I have seen drink recipes that kindly instruct you to add “3 parts of x” and “6 parts of y.” Something seemed off there. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/54 "2011-06-10T02:32:04Z")
It’s funny considering how “dryness” is now the sign of a good martini, but according to Wikipedia, the original recipe called for two ounces of vermouth and one ounce of gin. Imagine serving one of those nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/55 "2011-06-10T02:51:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’ve never understood how vodka drinks are considered “martinis” at all. I mean, the gin (or vodka) is the overwhelming majority of the drink. Is there anything a gin martini and a vodka martini have in common, besides a splash of vermouth and being served in a conical glass with a stem? Not really, but look around. These days _anything_ served in a conical glass with a stem is called a martini, up to and including tap water. :rolleyes: Possibly off-topic, but as a man born in the fifties, I was given to understand that vodka was a distilled spirit that came from potatoes. What’s with people talking about vodkas made with wheat? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/56 "2011-06-10T03:03:20Z")
Vodka hasn’t been made with potatoes for years. It is much cheaper to mass produce and distill grain alcohol. Potato vodka is rare, either the cheapest rotgut (which is not readily available in the US) or top-shelf fancy stuff like the aforementioned Chopin. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/57 "2011-06-10T03:34:31Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Possibly off-topic, but as a man born in the fifties, I was given to understand that vodka was a distilled spirit that came from potatoes. What’s with people talking about vodkas made with wheat? Most vodka out there is distilled from wheat or rye (or some other grain). Its origins are that of a rye-based distillate. ---
**Author:** ![GameHat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ed655f/32.png) [@GameHat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GameHat)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/58 "2011-06-10T03:35:45Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Start with Bombay Sapphire. Then try Hendricks. Compare and contrast. Done in one. I like them dirty once in a while. But either way, Sapphire is ace. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/59 "2011-06-10T03:48:58Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Possibly off-topic, but as a man born in the fifties, I was given to understand that vodka was a distilled spirit that came from potatoes. What’s with people talking about vodkas made with wheat? > [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Vodka hasn’t been made with potatoes for years. It is much cheaper to mass produce and distill grain alcohol. Potato vodka is rare, either the cheapest rotgut (which is not readily available in the US) or top-shelf fancy stuff like the aforementioned Chopin. > [@pulykamell](#): > > Most vodka out there is distilled from wheat or rye (or some other grain). Its origins are that of a rye-based distillate. Fuck 'em. If they want to make a non-potato spirit, they can dam well call it something else, instead of messing with my childhood memories. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2011, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755/60 "2011-06-10T04:35:17Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s funny considering how “dryness” is now the sign of a good martini, but according to Wikipedia, the original recipe called for two ounces of vermouth and one ounce of gin. Imagine serving one of those nowadays. Plus as wiki sez="_The original Martinez cocktail consisted of two ounces of Italian Martini & Rossi sweet vermouth, one ounce Old Tom sweet gin, two dashes maraschino liquor, one dash bitters, shaken, and served with a twist of lemon.[citation needed] By the end of the 19th century, the martini had morphed into a simpler form: two dashes of orange bitters, mixed with half a jigger of dry French vermouth and half a jigger of dry English gin, stirred and served with an olive."_ But as my dad said “An extra-dry martini is just straight gin with an olive”.🆒 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/martinis-i-drink-em-with-vodka-feels-wrong-gin-educate-me/584755.md?page=4)