# Marty (1955) Oscar winner starring Ernest Borgnine: Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [January 10, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106 "2011-01-10T16:18:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106/1 "2011-01-10T16:18:27Z")
I DVR’d this a while ago off TCM and finally watched it last night. I have heard about, known about, saw clips from it and seen the cultural references to it all over the place. \*Quizshow \*came to mind immediately. **Angie** : What do you wanna do tonight? **Marty Pilletti** : I dunno, Angie. What do you wanna do? These famous lines are something I think I have always known and knew they were from Marty. It is one of those films I think that pervades the American conscious like a _Casablanca_, _On the Waterfront_, _Gone with the Wind_ or _Citizen Kane_ though it is far less popular overall. Well you know what? I would say this movie was under-rated if anything except I saw it has a 100% on [rottentomatoes](http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1013427-marty/). So I will say it is under-known instead. I would give it a 10. The dialogue and acting was great, gritty and real. The capturing of the Bronx in 1954 was amazing. I wasn’t even born yet and it made me nostalgic for the NY of that time. Surprisingly great acting from supporting actors like Jerry Paris (best known as the neighbor on the _Dick Van Dyke_ show a few years later) and the mother and the aunt. [Esther Minciotti](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0591034/) & [Augusta Ciolli](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0162557/) who I am guessing came mainly off Broadway. [Betsy Blair](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0086198/) as plain Clara (Gene Kelly’s wife at the time) was excellent but of course too good looking for the constant descriptions as a dog. But the movie was great enough that I could suspend my belief to treat her as Hollywood Ugly. But it was [Ernest Borgnine](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000308/) as Marty that made the picture. He is so much better than the affable and extremely likable character actor that I think of him as or the toughs he played prior to Marty. He was probably on par with Brando in this role at least. So I think this movie was great and nearly perfect. I hope others will share their thoughts on it. For those that have not seen it or want a refresher: [Marty - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marty) ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106/2 "2011-01-10T16:40:12Z")
I saw just the beginning of it (probably the same TCM airing that you copied) and I thought it looked very good. Like you, I was curious because I’ve always been aware of the “Whaddaya wanna do tonight, Marty” line but knew basically nothing else about the movie. (I was born the year it came out… I bet relatively few people under 40 would know the reference.) ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106/3 "2011-01-10T17:24:23Z")
If you haven’t deleted it, could you check out about 40 minutes into it in the dancing scene. A lot of people think Jerry Orbach shows up as one of the extras dancing. While it’s possible, and the guy does look like him, I think he’s too short, unless he is really hunched down. Whaddaya think? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106/4 "2011-01-10T17:29:50Z")
A truly fine film, without any frills. Every scene was compelling, and as mentioned, Borgnine’s acting was superb and never to be equalled again by him in his career. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106/5 "2011-01-10T17:42:48Z")
Apart from the suspension of disbelief regarding the _ugly_ girlfriend, it was a good movie and well acted. It might say something about my attention span, but I like simple understandable movies that hit me over the head with the point. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106/6 "2011-01-10T17:46:09Z")
My favorite scene is possibly unintentionally funny. Marty is getting down on himself. I don’t have the exact dialogue but it’s something like this. Marty: Ma, I’m just a fat ugly man. Ma: You not ugly… Viewable on youtube here: [Marty scene](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItzdA6XzmSA) ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106/7 "2011-01-10T17:51:00Z")
Why do I have this idea there is controversy associated with this movie? Do I have it confused with something else? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106/8 "2011-01-10T17:56:27Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > Why do I have this idea there is controversy associated with this movie? Do I have it confused with something else? I don’t know of much, though [Betsy Blair](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0086198/) almost did not get the role thanks to the blacklist. > [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > If you haven’t deleted it, could you check out about 40 minutes into it in the dancing scene. A lot of people think Jerry Orbach shows up as one of the extras dancing. While it’s possible, and the guy does look like him, I think he’s too short, unless he is really hunched down. Whaddaya think? I’ll try to take a look, but I am not sure I would recognize him anyway back in 1955. **BwanaBob** , this is pretty much the scene from [Marty (1955)](http://www.filmsite.org/mart.html) > [@](#): > > Mrs. Pilletti (serving dinner): So, what are you gonna do tonight Marty? > Marty: I don’t know, Ma. I’m all knocked out. I may just hang around the house. > Mrs. Pilletti: Why don’t you go to the Stardust Ballroom? > Marty: What? > Mrs. Pilletti: I say, why don’t you go to the Stardust Ballroom? It’s loaded with tomatoes. > Marty: It’s loaded with what? > Mrs. Pilletti: Tomatoes. > Marty: (laughs) Who told you about the Stardust Ballroom, Ma? > Mrs. Pilletti: Tommy. [Tommy is Marty’s married cousin.] He say it was a very nice place. > Marty: Oh, Thomas. Ma, it’s just a big dance hall, that’s all it is. I been there a hundred times. Loaded with tomatoes - boy, you’re funny, Ma. > Mrs. Pilletti: Marty, I don’t want you to hang around the house tonight. I want you to go take a shave and go dance. > Marty: (pleading) Ma, when you gonna give up? You got a bachelor on your hands. I ain’t never gonna get married. > Mrs. Pilletti: You’re gonna get married. > Marty: Ma, sooner or later, there comes a point in a man’s life when he’s gotta face some facts. And one fact I gotta face is that, whatever it is that women like, I ain’t got it. I chased after enough girls in my life. I-I went to enough dances. I got hurt enough. I don’t wanna get hurt no more. I just called up a girl this afternoon, and I got a real brush-off, boy! I figured I was past the point of being hurt, but that hurt. Some stupid woman who I didn’t even want to call up. She gave me the brush. No, Ma, I don’t wanna go to Stardust Ballroom because all that ever happened to me there was girls made me feel like I was a-a-a bug. I got feelings, you know. I-I had enough pain. No thanks, Ma! > Mrs. Pilletti: Marty - > Marty: No. I’m gonna stay home tonight and watch _The Hit Parade_. > Mrs. Pilletti: (said with regret) You’re gonna die without a son. > Marty: So I’ll die without a son. > Mrs. Pilletti: Marty, put on the blue suit, huh? > Marty: Blue suit, gray suit, I’m just a fat, little man. A fat ugly man. > Mrs. Pilletti: You not ugly. > Marty: I’m ugly, I’m ugly, I’m ugly! > Mrs. Pilletti: Marty - > Marty: (He rises, agitated) Ma, leave me alone. Ma, whaddaya want from me? Whaddaya want from me? I’m miserable enough as it is. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106/9 "2011-01-10T17:56:48Z")
I always confuse "Marty"and “On the waterfront”. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106/10 "2011-01-10T18:01:26Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > Why do I have this idea there is controversy associated with this movie? Do I have it confused with something else? Could it be from its use in Quiz Show? In that film, the producers made the current winner (Herbie Stimpel played by John Turturro) throw his last question so that the Ralph Finnes character would move forward. The question was about Marty, which happened to be Stipmel’s all-time favorite movie. Nobody who knew him could believe he’d really choke on that question. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106/11 "2011-01-10T18:06:13Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > If you haven’t deleted it, could you check out about 40 minutes into it in the dancing scene. A lot of people think Jerry Orbach shows up as one of the extras dancing. While it’s possible, and the guy does look like him, I think he’s too short, unless he is really hunched down. Whaddaya think? He wasn’t credited in the film, but [imdb.com](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048356/fullcredits#cast) says that was indeed Jerry Orbach in the ballroom scene. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106/12 "2011-01-10T18:10:16Z")
Interesting, the movie was of course based on a teleplay and “the Dog” was much more realistically [portrayed by a young Nancy Marchand](http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp308/jlapper/they%20were%20collaborators/NancyandRod1954.jpg). Betsy Blair was at worst, [even in the movie](http://images.usatoday.com/life/_photos/2006/02/28/inside-mikemenu.jpg), mousy. ---
**Author:** ![Jaledin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Jaledin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaledin)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106/13 "2011-01-10T18:11:10Z")
> [@Katriona](#): > > Could it be from its use in Quiz Show? In that film, the producers made the current winner (Herbie Stimpel played by John Turturro) throw his last question so that the Ralph Finnes character would move forward. “Whaddya mean, about _Marty_ and _I_ shouldn’t know??!!” If anything, I think “Quiz Show” would have increased the number of younger people who are at least aware of “Marty.” ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106/14 "2011-01-10T18:14:52Z")
Personally I found the teleplay to be a better version. I think movies that showed this kind of realism not often encountered in movies very often back then, like the mundane 'What do you wanna do tonight?". Another interesting teleplay vs. movie comparison is\* Requiem for a Heavyweight\*. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106/15 "2011-01-10T18:43:59Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > He wasn’t credited in the film, but [imdb.com](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048356/fullcredits#cast) says that was indeed Jerry Orbach in the ballroom scene. Yeah, I know. Similarly, Dick Cheney is listed as cop in one of the “Die Hard” movies (as the result of the director’s commentary). Any time you’re dealing with uncredited roles, the rule is “trust, but verify.” I’ve seen this, and I’m not convinced–but not convinced that it’s not, either. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106/16 "2011-01-10T18:46:56Z")
Can you link to any pictures of Jerry Orbach at around that time? Otherwise it would be silly for me to look. I only know him as an older man. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106/17 "2011-01-10T18:47:35Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > If you haven’t deleted it, could you check out about 40 minutes into it in the dancing scene. A lot of people think Jerry Orbach shows up as one of the extras dancing. While it’s possible, and the guy does look like him, I think he’s too short, unless he is really hunched down. Whaddaya think? I dunno. Whadda you think? ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106/18 "2011-01-10T18:55:22Z")
I’m pretty sure I hadn’t heard of _Marty_ before seeing _Quiz Show_. I do remember seeing Marty at the video stores afterwards and being underwhelmed with the box art ([Marty (1955) - IMDb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048356/)) and thus never making a point to see it. Guess I should make a point to catch it sometimes…sounds right up my alley, really. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106/19 "2011-01-10T19:12:47Z")
For what it is worth: [QUOTE=wiki] Esther Minciotti, Augusta Ciolli and Joe Mantell reprised their roles from the live television production. **[Jerry Orbach](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Orbach) made his debut in an uncredited role as a ballroom guest**. For the film adaptation, the role of Clara was expanded, and subplots about Marty’s career and his mother and her sister were added. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2011, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106/20 "2011-01-10T19:17:16Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > Yeah, I know. Similarly, Dick Cheney is listed as cop in one of the “Die Hard” movies (as the result of the director’s commentary). Any time you’re dealing with uncredited roles, the rule is “trust, but verify.” I’ve seen this, and I’m not convinced–but not convinced that it’s not, either. I agree it’s questionable. Orbach was born in 1935. His first official credit was in 1958, when he would have been 23. But IMDB lists him in two uncredited “face in the crowd” parts in 1955. Orbach went to college in Chicago. He presumedly was still there in 1955. Why would he have left school to make very small walk-on roles in two movies and then not done anything else for three more years? It seems just as likely to me that the person you briefly see in _Marty_ and _Guys and Dolls_ was somebody else who just happened to resemble Orbach. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marty-1955-oscar-winner-starring-ernest-borgnine-discussion/567106.md?page=2)