# Marvel Comic geeks- Why were the Fantastic 4 films sooooo silly?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 27, 2013, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513 "2013-02-27T13:11:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/21 "2013-02-28T03:03:25Z")
I didn’t think the FF as characters were handled all that badly; they seem to have gotten the Johnny-Ben dramatic right, at least, and while Reed-Sue wasn’t perfect (especially due to the insertion of Doom as a romantic rival) they at least had some sense of why Reed could be a frustrating boyfriend/spouse. Doom was completely wrong. The second movie was just a mess. I don’t think it would have even been green-lit, except that the studio wanted to keep the rights to the Silver Surfer (or something like that). ---
**Author:** ![solosam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@solosam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solosam)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/22 "2013-03-01T01:04:10Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Couldn’t it just be that they figured: > with all the various new film series from superhero comics, might as well have one aimed at kids? Y’know, just as a marketing decision? I do not concur. As above, \*The Incredibles \*took a fundamentally similar concept and was an amazing success. Studios like Pixar/Disney and Dreamworks have demonstrated that they understand how to make films that are not trite or silly, and really do hold as much appeal for adults as children. Saying that children were the target audience is no excuse for sloppy film-making. > [@grude](#): > > The “cosmic god” art style does not translate well to real life, see for example Galactus. I understand fully why they were so unsure they changed it to a cloud. I also disagree with this. Check out the “Ultimate Alliance” video game. They demonstrated a CG version of Galactus that manages to be true to the comics, realistic, and menacing all at the same time. I didn’t think it was possible, but somehow they pulled it off. There is no reason the film could not have done the same. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > They stole most of his costuime for Darth Vader – Doom should’ve been at least as impressive or memorable. Agreed. When I read the comic Doom, I hear James Earl Jone’s voice. Doom should be regal, powerful, majestic, and magnanimous. The movie version was none of these things. They completely failed to capture the villain who is arguably the most important character in the FF pantheon. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/23 "2013-03-01T03:23:45Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > The first _Hulk_ movie made $245 million on a $137 million budget; the reboot, $263 million on a $150 million budget; that’s not tripling one’s budget, or even doubling one’s budget; it’s a miserable failure. > > The first _Fantastic Four_ movie made $330 million on a $100 million budget; its sequel made $289 million on a $130 million budget; that’s plenty more than _“tripling”_ and _“doubling,”_ respectively. So it’s perfectly understandable to go with an approach that costs less and makes more than puny Banner. > > I know going in that I could fail to double the budget with a serious-minded project like _Superman Returns_ or a _Hellboy_ – and in years to come I’ll see people fail to double their budgets with projects like _Watchmen_ and _Green Lantern_. But (a) I’m out to make a buck, and (b) I could do a lot worse. Yeah, although they were panned by critics & fanboys alike the fact that both FF films turned a decent profit is the main answer. I had always thought that the first one bombed (judging by what I saw of it) and that’s why there was such a big gap for the sequel (and I thought _Silver Surfer_ maybe was direct to video or something!). I also thought _Green Lantern_ suffered from the same flaws, extremely silly & juvenile, and it tanked accordingly. And yet FF succeeded (twice!) I’ve only seen the first _X-Men_ (and the \*Wolverine \*prequel) but both of those were pretty damn good, and not just for comic book movies. They went in with the idea that I feel _all_ superhero films should: Take it more than moderately seriously, otherwise it’s a dork running around in underoos! Jessica Alba is a given as mere eye candy, and I have no idea who played flame guy, but both **Ioan Gruffudd** and **Michael Chiklis** are genuinely great actors who have done a lot of quality material. I really expected, if not Christian Bale, at least Robert Downey Jr from them! They should be ashamed of themselves (I know, all the way to the bank…) ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/24 "2013-03-01T04:30:38Z")
> [@solosam](#): > > Saying that children were the target audience is no excuse for sloppy film-making. Oh, I completely agree with you. In fact, I hate it when criticism of a bad kids movie is met with “Geez, it’s a kids movie, whaddaya want from it?” Just to clarify, when I started my post with “Couldn’t it just be” I was not merely using a rhetorical device. I haven’t actually seen these movies so I really was just asking to be informed. Mine was just the third reply, before the discussion of how these movies were actually _bad_. My question was prompted by the OP’s assertion that the movies were: [QUOTE=Hail Ants] incredibly juvenile, as though the studio made a conscious decision that the target audience was going to be boys 12 and under. [/QUOTE] I was aware that the films were financially successful, so I was just wondering if they were just never interested in drawing from the Iron Man, Dark Knight, and X-Men audiences. I figured a significant reason why the film so offends fans of the more adult-oriented comic book movies might simply be that this one _really was_ intentionally targeting “boys 12 and under”. The replies so far don’t seem to be “I wasn’t the target audience”. The replies seem more to be “I _was_ the target audience, but the movies were _bad_” which, having not seen the movies, I am perfectly ready to accept as being the case. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/25 "2013-03-01T04:38:08Z")
It doesn’t matter who is in the Doom armor-the perfect voice would be Maximilian Schell. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/26 "2013-03-01T04:39:29Z")
I’ve always thought Doom sounded just like Cobra Commander. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/27 "2013-03-01T04:44:58Z")
> [@Doctor\_Who](#): > > I’ve always thought Doom sounded just like Cobra Commander. He is an Eastern European monarch-nothing like that whiny coward from Cobra. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky_the_Wonder_Spirit)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/28 "2013-03-01T04:51:28Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > I have no idea who played flame guy Captain America. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/29 "2013-03-01T04:56:28Z")
it’s so forgettable that they can use the same actor for two different superheroes in the same universe? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/30 "2013-03-01T06:04:33Z")
I blame Jessica Alba who can’t act and was so\* very\* wrong for Sue Storm. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/31 "2013-03-01T07:50:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I blame Jessica Alba who can’t act and was so\* very\* wrong for Sue Storm. I’ve said it a billion times… Reese m-f-ing Witherspoon was born to play Sue Richards. They aren’t bad movies, they just aren’t good either. The Thing/Torch stuff was pretty solid–if you didn’t like that, you’re just not going to like half of the entire core concept of the FF. The 2nd was an improvement and tried to smooth over some of the crappy Doom stuff from the first. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/32 "2013-03-01T08:01:14Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > it’s so forgettable that they can use the same actor for two different superheroes in the same universe? Pretty much. > [@DrDeth](#): > > I blame Jessica Alba who can’t act and was so\* very\* wrong for Sue Storm. While I agree Alba wasn’t right for the role, she wasn’t enough to take down the entire films, as the rest of the team was solid. The scripts just plain sucked. The FF were always more SF adventurers than super-heroes, anyway - they should have embraced that aspect. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/33 "2013-03-01T10:45:59Z")
I blame Mister Fantastic. He’s a full quarter of the team. He’s the driving force behind the entire story. He’s the leader of the group, and the brains. And he _stretches_. I don’t think it’s possible to make stretching look anything other than goofy- at least, not in the “real” world. Even if you can get the CGI right, you’re still going to run into the obvious issues with the ability- clothing, balance, that sort of thing. CGI is still in the Uncanny Valley, so how do you CGI someone into what is quite literally a caricature of the human body without it looking even _worse_? And if a character that won’t work is such a central character, how do you make the rest of the movie anything other than silly? ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/34 "2013-03-01T10:57:29Z")
It must be hard to come up with situations where stretchiness, invisibility, fire, and rock monsters all have an equal amount to contribute. And frankly, if I was an evil villain I’d make sure to come up with very specific situations where none of those would be useful at all. It’s such a weird and disparate collection of super powers. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/35 "2013-03-01T12:49:35Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > I don’t think it’s possible to make stretching look anything other than goofy- at least, not in the “real” world. Even if you can get the CGI right, you’re still going to run into the obvious issues with the ability- clothing, balance, that sort of thing. CGI is still in the Uncanny Valley, so how do you CGI someone into what is quite literally a caricature of the human body without it looking even _worse_? Elastigirl did all right…'course, she also has better hair. That makes a difference. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/36 "2013-03-01T15:05:17Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > It must be hard to come up with situations where stretchiness, invisibility, fire, and rock monsters all have an equal amount to contribute. And frankly, if I was an evil villain I’d make sure to come up with very specific situations where none of those would be useful at all. > > It’s such a weird and disparate collection of super powers. Exactly. Fantastic Four ARE silly. Superman is…well..Superman Batman is a brooding billionaire in a cape Iron Man is a brooding billionaire in an armored power suit The other Avengers are a Hulk, a Norse thunder god, a jingoistic super soldier and a couple of assassins. Wolverine is an angry, indestructable badass with claws (and his movie still sucked). Stretchy genius, invisibility, rock monster and “flame on!” seem pretty lame by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/37 "2013-03-01T15:27:31Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > it’s so forgettable that they can use the same actor for two different superheroes in the same universe? They’re not in the same FILM universe. As has been explained upthread, Fox owns the Fantastic Four rights and Disney/Marvel retained the Avengers rights and those of their component characters. (And Sony owns the film rights to Spider-Man.) For the duration that those separate studios own those particular characters’ film rights, you will never see Captain America and the Human Torch in the same film, so there’s no confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/38 "2013-03-01T15:43:07Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > At least when they jumped the shark, they could do it in a Dodge flying car with a Hemi®. That was the most glaringly stupid product placement that has ever been in a movie. I mean it doesn’t even make sense. Reed built the Fantasticar. Why would he put a Dodge logo on it? They didn’t build it. And how could it have a Hemi? Its a jet car. Hemis are internal combustion engines named because of the hemispherical shape of the combustion chamber of each cylinder. You can’t have a hemi jet engine. Makes my teeth itch everytime I’ve seen it. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/39 "2013-03-01T15:45:19Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > It must be hard to come up with situations where stretchiness, invisibility, fire, and rock monsters all have an equal amount to contribute. Indeed, lots of the early Fantastic Four comics are bit silly for that reason (among others). Invisible Girl was particularly silly, since her early personality seemed to revolve around wanting to go shopping or get her hair done at the beauty parlor, plus her superpower was basically super-fleeing-from-bad-guys. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/40 "2013-03-01T15:46:59Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > Invisible Girl was particularly silly, since her early personality seemed to revolve around wanting to go shopping or get her hair done at the beauty parlor Not to mention vaccillating on whether she wanted to be with Reed or Namor…Sue Storm personified the flighty blonde stereotype in early FF. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513.md?page=3)