# Marvel Comic geeks- Why were the Fantastic 4 films sooooo silly?! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 27, 2013, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513 "2013-02-27T13:11:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/41 "2013-03-01T16:01:03Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > I blame Mister Fantastic. > > He’s a full quarter of the team. He’s the driving force behind the entire story. He’s the leader of the group, and the brains. > > And he _stretches_. > > I don’t think it’s possible to make stretching look anything other than goofy- at least, not in the “real” world. Even if you can get the CGI right, you’re still going to run into the obvious issues with the ability- clothing, balance, that sort of thing. CGI is still in the Uncanny Valley, so how do you CGI someone into what is quite literally a caricature of the human body without it looking even _worse_? > > And if a character that won’t work is such a central character, how do you make the rest of the movie anything other than silly? Stretchiness IS goofy. As far as I can tell, the idea of a super-stretchy person as a superhero was invented by Jack Cole, an unbelievably talented and imaginative cartoon artist with several completely different stryles (he created and ran different works in different venues, undetected and unsuspected by even fellow cartoon artists). His Plastic Man was the original stretching hero, who managed to stretch himself into a variety of very interesting and inventive shapes, in a series of highly stylized and comic adventures, with villains drawn as bizzarely as anything out of Chester Gould’s _Dick Tracy_. He didn’t intend to create a “serious” superhero. But everyone imitated him. DC comics produced Elastic Lad (Jimmy Olsen, at times) and even Elastic Lass, and the ongoing (and ridiculously-named) Elongated Man\*. Marvel gave us Mister Fantastic. And, of course, The Incredible’s Elastigirl (Note how those names still payed homage to the original, resembling it in some way). Only Elongated Man and Mister Fantastic were ever meant to be really “serious”, and Reed Richards was more the Scientific Genius than the Stretching Hero. \*Frank Miller, in _The Dark Knight Strikes Again_, his follow-up to _The Dark Knight Returns_, has Plastic Man rightly criticizing the similarly-powered Elongated Man: “You never turn into anything! You just STRETCH! You’re the most boring superhero I’ve ever met!” It’s true – if you can’t turn into something, or have something else going for you (super intelligence), then what’s the point? Elastigirl turns into some GREAT things, and the way she moves when she stretches – something you can only approximate in the comics\*\* – is a joy to behold. \*\* Something Jack Cole DID manage to do. See the Art Spiegelman/Chip Kid biography “Jack Cole: Forms Stretched to their Limits” ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/42 "2013-03-01T16:28:56Z")
Technically Galactus was not a cloud but a shit ton of sentient ships somewhat bug like. They chose to go with Ultimate Galactus (or Gah Lak Tus) instead of regular Galactus. > **[Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantastic_Four:_Rise_of_the_Silver_Surfer)** > > Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer\[c\] is a 2007 superhero film, and sequel to the 2005 film Fantastic Four. Both films are based on the Fantastic Four comic book and were directed by Tim Story. The film stars Ioan Gruffudd, Jessica Alba, Chris Evans, and Michael Chiklis as the title characters, with Julian McMahon, Kerry Washington, Andre Braugher, Beau Garrett, Doug Jones and Laurence Fishburne in supporting roles. The plot follows the Fantastic Four (and Doctor Doom) as they confront... > [@](#): > > Payne has also said the film takes inspiration from the Ultimate Marvel limited series Ultimate Extinction That version is the bug ships version. > **[Ultimate Galactus Trilogy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Galactus_Trilogy)** > > The Ultimate Galactus Trilogy is a collection of three comic book limited series published by Marvel Comics. All three series are set in the Ultimate Marvel universe and are written by Warren Ellis. The series showcase the arrival of the planet-eating entity Gah Lak Tus on Earth. > Published from August 2004 to May 2006, the three series were titled Ultimate Nightmare (#1 - 5, Oct. 2004 - Feb. 2005), Ultimate Secret (#1 - 4, May - Dec. 2005), and Ultimate Extinction (#1 - 5, Mar. - July 2006). The... > [@](#): > > once Silver Surfer arrives to “herald” the approach of Gah Lak Tus, who is discovered to be a swarm of thousands of sentient ships stretched 100,000 miles (160,000 km) long Just look at those two pictures on the wiki page. Stupid as hell. When I heard there was going to be an Ultimate Galactus I was happy. Then I got the first issue and realized they were giant bugs I said, “Bwah?” and I never got the next two issues. Going with the giant bugs instead of the real Galactus was the dumbest thing out of both movies. I knew they were going with giant bugs so I wasn’t surprised but my friends all thought it was just a giant cloud and thought it was stupid for a giant cloud to be one of the biggest threats Earth ever faced. If they had gone with the real Galactus it would have been epic especially if there was a shot like this: [http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/13/136637/2673360-Galactus.jpg](http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/13/136637/2673360-Galactus.jpg) or like this: [http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/\_\_cb20080423162952/marveldatabase/images/4/4c/Galactus\_(Earth-616)\_008.jpg](http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080423162952/marveldatabase/images/4/4c/Galactus_(Earth-616)_008.jpg) or this: [![](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/798c8635-b11e-4c0e-9b69-9095280ff2ad/d125mj4-b6cc90c1-c0bd-4b75-a212-2ed18a3dfe5b.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJpc3MiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwic3ViIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTpmaWxlLmRvd25sb2FkIl0sIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiIvZi83OThjODYzNS1iMTFlLTRjMGUtOWI2OS05MDk1MjgwZmYyYWQvZDEyNW1qNC1iNmNjOTBjMS1jMGJkLTRiNzUtYTIxMi0yZWQxOGEzZGZlNWIuanBnIn1dXX0.MVvyafWIvIDcaISDmL81_bTGKeJpAGsjEItLYK76JaM) ](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/798c8635-b11e-4c0e-9b69-9095280ff2ad/d125mj4-b6cc90c1-c0bd-4b75-a212-2ed18a3dfe5b.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJpc3MiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwic3ViIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTpmaWxlLmRvd25sb2FkIl0sIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiIvZi83OThjODYzNS1iMTFlLTRjMGUtOWI2OS05MDk1MjgwZmYyYWQvZDEyNW1qNC1iNmNjOTBjMS1jMGJkLTRiNzUtYTIxMi0yZWQxOGEzZGZlNWIuanBnIn1dXX0.MVvyafWIvIDcaISDmL81_bTGKeJpAGsjEItLYK76JaM) ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/43 "2013-03-01T16:45:39Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > He is an Eastern European monarch-nothing like that whiny coward from Cobra. Well sure… Before his face got all mangled. That altered his voice and now he sounds just like Cobra Commander. Check Wikipedia… I’ll wait here… I won’t go edit the wiki page to support my assertion. ::: navigates away from page nonchalantly ::: ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/44 "2013-03-01T19:36:35Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > They aren’t bad movies, they just aren’t good either. The Thing/Torch stuff was pretty solid–if you didn’t like that, you’re just not going to like half of the entire core concept of the FF. I disagree that it was solid - I would have liked to see some lighthearted banter, but there was no emotional investment, because the characters were flat and frankly insipid, even Chiklis as The Thing. It may have been bearable if you read the comics, but to those of us who don’t it felt fake and tedious. > [@](#): > > The 2nd was an improvement and tried to smooth over some of the crappy Doom stuff from the first. The Silver Surfer himself was an improvement - there was some real weight and tragedy to his character. But it never went anywhere and the entire final act was miserable and had no payoff. Plus, I hate Invisible Woman’s disgusting self-centerdness. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/45 "2013-03-01T20:21:33Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Stretchiness IS goofy. As far as I can tell, the idea of a super-stretchy person as a superhero was invented by Jack Cole, an unbelievably talented and imaginative cartoon artist with several completely different stryles (he created and ran different works in different venues, undetected and unsuspected by even fellow cartoon artists). His Plastic Man was the original stretching hero, who managed to stretch himself into a variety of very interesting and inventive shapes, in a series of highly stylized and comic adventures, with villains drawn as bizzarely as anything out of Chester Gould’s _Dick Tracy_. He didn’t intend to create a “serious” superhero. > > But everyone imitated him. DC comics produced Elastic Lad (Jimmy Olsen, at times) and even Elastic Lass, and the ongoing (and ridiculously-named) Elongated Man\*. Marvel gave us Mister Fantastic. And, of course, The Incredible’s Elastigirl (Note how those names still payed homage to the original, resembling it in some way). > > Only Elongated Man and Mister Fantastic were ever meant to be really “serious”, and Reed Richards was more the Scientific Genius than the Stretching Hero. > > \*Frank Miller, in _The Dark Knight Strikes Again_, his follow-up to _The Dark Knight Returns_, has Plastic Man rightly criticizing the similarly-powered Elongated Man: > “You never turn into anything! You just STRETCH! You’re the most boring superhero I’ve ever met!” > > It’s true – if you can’t turn into something, or have something else going for you (super intelligence), then what’s the point? Elastigirl turns into some GREAT things, and the way she moves when she stretches – something you can only approximate in the comics\*\* – is a joy to behold. > \*\* Something Jack Cole DID manage to do. See the Art Spiegelman/Chip Kid biography “Jack Cole: Forms Stretched to their Limits” Has anyone yet mentioned what an interesting sex life the wives and girlfriends of stretchy-men must have? ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/46 "2013-03-01T22:09:41Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > Indeed, lots of the early Fantastic Four comics are bit silly for that reason (among others). > > Invisible Girl was particularly silly, since her early personality seemed to revolve around wanting to go shopping or get her hair done at the beauty parlor, plus her superpower was basically super-fleeing-from-bad-guys. I don’t blame the powers, I blame the writers. _Daredevil_ was doing so poorly Marvel was printing it bi-monthly until Miller showed the potential of the character. _The X-men_ was in the same boat before Claremont/Byrne got ahold of it. _Green Arrow_ couldn’t carry a title on his own before Mike Grell did a re-vamp of it. Even \*Iron Fist \*had a decent mini-series, and that’s about a guy who can get in one good punch a day. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/47 "2013-03-01T23:46:44Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > Has anyone yet mentioned what an interesting sex life the wives and girlfriends of stretchy-men must have? I’m sure it’s been considered. I know I certainly have. But I don’t know of any examples of this anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/48 "2013-03-02T01:20:51Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > Has anyone yet mentioned what an interesting sex life the wives and girlfriends of stretchy-men must have? > [@CalMeacham](#): > > I’m sure it’s been considered. I know I certainly have. But I don’t know of any examples of this anywhere. In the parody of them on _The Venture Bros_ Reed is such an arrogant, selfish, controlling dick that inviso-girl left him for a midget with a couple prosthetic limbs! > [@Lightnin](#): > > I blame Mister Fantastic. > > He’s a full quarter of the team. He’s the driving force behind the entire story. He’s the leader of the group, and the brains. > > And he _stretches_. Comedian Norm Macdonald does a great bit sort of about this on his album _Ridiculous_. He plays Reed and is discussing what each member should be named, and after the logical choices for the other three he suddenly pulls ‘Mr Fantastic’ out of his ass for himself! And then each of the others slowly try interrupting him trying to grasp his logic that his (rather silly) superpower of ‘stretchiness’ warrants him getting to be called ‘Mr Fantastic’ (let alone him being the de facto leader!) ---
**Author:** ![Bakhesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Bakhesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bakhesh)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/49 "2013-03-02T13:07:10Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > Technically Galactus was not a cloud but a shit ton of sentient ships somewhat bug like. They chose to go with Ultimate Galactus (or Gah Lak Tus) instead of regular Galactus. I wonder if Marvel could sue Sony, on the grounds that although they sold them the rights to use Galactus, they didn’t sell them the rights for Gah Lak Tus ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/50 "2013-03-02T16:02:36Z")
> [@Bakhesh](#): > > I wonder if Marvel could sue Sony, on the grounds that although they sold them the rights to use Galactus, they didn’t sell them the rights for Gah Lak Tus It’s actually a very fuzzy area – defining how much of the FF world Sony owns when it comes to specific characters. As recently as two years ago, Marvel wasn’t sure if they own the film rights to Namor: The Submariner. Also, that’s why The Avengers fought the Chitauri instead of Skrulls – not because Sony owns Skrulls, but because Marvel wasn’t sure if they did. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/51 "2013-03-02T19:45:27Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I’m sure it’s been considered. I know I certainly have. But I don’t know of any examples of this anywhere. It’s heavily implied by the MARVEL MANGAVERSE version of Reed, who prides himself on leading the team with mere brainpower from a safe distance and (a) derides his physical ability to stretch as largely useless in combat while he (b) beds a string of extremely satisfied women. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513/52 "2013-03-02T20:33:48Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Exactly. Fantastic Four ARE silly. > > Superman is…well..Superman > Batman is a brooding billionaire in a cape > **Iron Man is a brooding billionaire in an armored power suit** > The other Avengers are a Hulk, a Norse thunder god, a jingoistic super soldier and a couple of assassins. > Wolverine is an angry, indestructable badass with claws (and his movie still sucked). One of my favorite lines from **The Avengers** : > [@](#): > > Steve Rogers: Big man in a suit of armor. Take that off, what are you? > Tony Stark: A genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist? What made the **Iron Man** films so great was that Tony Stark was every bit as cool when he _wasn’t_ kicking ass. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-comic-geeks-why-were-the-fantastic-4-films-sooooo-silly/651513.md?page=2)