# Marvel studios: No more origin stories **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 18, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857 "2014-08-18T22:22:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857/41 "2014-08-19T18:56:37Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > a Gamora movie I would watch this one, but would prefer that it be rated R or higher… ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857/42 "2014-08-19T19:01:16Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > a Gamora movie > [@Zakalwe](#): > > I would watch this one, but would prefer that it be rated R or higher… I read that as [_Gamera_](https://www.google.com/search?q=gamera&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=2Z7zU6n2EIagigKysIC4BQ&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1152&bih=438) and my mind went to a strange, strange place… :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857/43 "2014-08-19T19:08:17Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I read this and thought "Yeah, I can’t remember the last time I saw a Dracula origin story… and then I realized I don’t _know_ the Dracula origin story. Don’t get me wrong, I think we’ve about covered our bases on the heroes you mention… but I’d kinda like to find out how Dracula became a vampire. > > Oh, wait… isn’t that how we got the Star Wars prequels? :dubious: He had one in _Bram Stoker’s Dracula_ - the one with Gary Oldman. In that movie, he’s off fighting the Turks when false news reaches his wife that he’s been killed in battle. She commits suicide in despair, and when Drac gets back, is told by his priest that she’s in hell for killing herself. Dracula renounces God (and maybe murders the priest) and is cursed for it in turn, turning him into a vampire. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857/44 "2014-08-19T19:10:16Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Me. Spider-Man is one of the Marvel characters I can’t stand. I don’t want him mucking up my Avengers movies. Buy I clearly am in the minority on this. You’re not the only one. I have a certain affection for him because he was always around, but I never collected his comics. I’d buy the odd one if it was introducing an interesting new villain/hero or it was an important part of a crossover, but I never followed him all that closely. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857/45 "2014-08-19T19:10:38Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I read that as [_Gamera_](https://www.google.com/search?q=gamera&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=2Z7zU6n2EIagigKysIC4BQ&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1152&bih=438) and my mind went to a strange, strange place… :eek: Well, Kenny really did love that turtle. And we’ve already seen a robot sing a love song to a turtle. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857/46 "2014-08-19T19:16:13Z")
Origin stories also segue into what i think is often the best part of a Superhero film- where the Super whups some arrogant normal bad guys. This is always entertaining. Note that Green Lantern missed that and went straight to SAVING THE UNIVERSE, which I think was \*one \*of the problems. To me, Spidy is kinda meh. In a Avengers film he might make good comedy relief. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857/47 "2014-08-19T19:22:46Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > First, “origin stories” in comics books can be one or two panels, with a little monolog box of verbal explanations. And comics are always getting new readers (or so they hope), so the occasional reminder of origin was reasonable. > > .) Yeah, but I’m clearly not talking about one- or two-panel recaps. Don’t confuse the issue. I am clearly saying that, in the 60s and 70s, they constantly rehashed origin stories with comic book-length treatments. **Sage Rat** said: > [@](#): > > Basically, all you’re saying is that no one at the comic book companies has ever bothered to come up with stories worth telling, for any of their superheroes. > > I’d be perfectly happy to force them to move past that. Don’t blame the messenger. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857/48 "2014-08-19T20:08:30Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Yeah, but I’m clearly not talking about one- or two-panel recaps. Don’t confuse the issue. I am clearly saying that, in the 60s and 70s, they constantly rehashed origin stories with comic book-length treatments. Hmm. My memory is that they often had the one- or two-panel recaps, but rarely rehashed the story – of course, I was reading only DC in the late 50s, early 60s, I dunno about Marvel. There were lots of sort-of-vaguely-reboot stories then, like a time machine that sends Superman back to Krypton before Jor-el and Lara are married, that sort of thing, or the appearance of Supergirl and a whole chunck of Krypton that survived, etc. So there were lots of stories related to the origin, but not simply origin as such, if you follow me? ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857/49 "2014-08-19T20:19:04Z")
> [@Hermione](#): > > I agree with **asterion** that it’d depend on the character. But I’d still like to see an origin movie for Dr. Strange. > > For one thing, his story is delightfully over-the-top (so much so that it might be jarring to just sort of drop us into the middle of it). For another, it makes for an interesting character arc…an arrogant man humbled and forced to find a new way of life. > > The only drawback is that it’s a little close to Tony Stark’s origin story…a self-centered man shaken up by a blow to his mortality and abilities and learning to see beyond himself. Dr. Strange’s origin story has a few more problems than that. Upper class white guy Stephen Strange going to the Mystic Orient and learning exotic powers from the (generically Asian) Ancient One is full-on Mighty Whitey territory. Given how whitebread and male all of Marvel’s movie-leading characters have been, Mighty Whitey is territory they strenuously need to avoid. Also, in origin story movies, a significant portion of the zero-to-hero arc is taken up with the newfound superhero coming to grips with his powers. Which for Dr. Strange would be… a studying montage? Not exactly gripping cinema. The arrogant-jerk/doctor-learns-humility arc has some potential if done right. But it’s difficult to get that right; Robert Downey can pull that off and come out as likeable, but Ryan Reynolds didn’t so much. _And_ that is a heartstring that can be tugged in a brief flashback, rather than taking up a significant portion of the beginning movie with it. I think going with Dr. Strange as an “origin movie” would be a terrible choice, and I’m hoping this means they’ve avoided that pitfall (although normally, hearing they’ve completely scrapped the script does not fill me with confidence). ---
**Author:** ![tullsterx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tullsterx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tullsterx)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857/50 "2014-08-19T20:25:44Z")
Boy that’s great news. Or at lease keep it minimal and let elements gradually develop as other plots lines are played out, like they did in Guardians of the Galaxy. And I’m looking forward to the expanded palette, and getting away from the standards. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857/51 "2014-08-19T20:32:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **DrDeth** : > > Origin stories also segue into what i think is often the best part of a Superhero film- where the Super whups some arrogant normal bad guys. This is always entertaining. Note that Green Lantern missed that and went straight to SAVING THE UNIVERSE, which I think was one of the problems. Beg pardon? There was that scene with him green-cartoon-fist punching the guys in the parking lot. Which really wasn’t very good, because he went way overboard and probably killed some dudes who absolutely didn’t deserve that much… but it was there. ---
**Author:** ![Kiros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/439d5e/32.png) [@Kiros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiros)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857/52 "2014-08-19T23:02:58Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Me. Spider-Man is one of the Marvel characters I can’t stand. I don’t want him mucking up my Avengers movies. Buy I clearly am in the minority on this. I’m with you as well. I can’t think of anything that would ruin my current goodwill towards the Avengers movie universe more than Spidey getting involved. I really like what’s been going on in the last couple of X-Men movies, and I’d even be hesitant to get _them_ re-integrated. As for origin stories more generally, I don’t mind them as long as they’re done well. Which is actually a kind of high bar in this genre; I was all ready to name Batman Begins, Iron Man, and a third movie as exemplary origin stories that we probably don’t need to ever reboot… and then I couldn’t come up with a third to call “great”, even after looking through the list of comic book movies on Wikipedia. (I wasn’t as high on Guardians of the Galaxy as most here were.) I guess the 1978 Superman? Origin story movies seem easy to make and they keep doing them (over and over, for some characters), but they don’t have a great hit rate, even compared to big budget movies in general. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857/53 "2014-08-19T23:12:05Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Hmm. My memory is that they often had the one- or two-panel recaps, but rarely rehashed the story – of course, I was reading only DC in the late 50s, early 60s, I dunno about Marvel. There were lots of sort-of-vaguely-reboot stories then, like a time machine that sends Superman back to Krypton before Jor-el and Lara are married, that sort of thing, or the appearance of Supergirl and a whole chunck of Krypton that survived, etc. So there were lots of stories related to the origin, but not simply origin as such, if you follow me? To e that IS screwing with the origin, especially when, for example, infant Superman gets abducted en route from Krypton to Earth, or when you have an “imaginary story” where Superman lands on any of fiove different plasnets, becoming THe Flash, in essence, or Batman, or Green Arrow, etc. Or when Black Zero, we learn, is actually the one who blew up Krypton: > **[Superman #205 - The Man Who Destroyed Krypton! (Issue)](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/superman-205-the-man-who-destroyed-krypton/4000-122316/)** Hard to deny that they’re screwing with the origin story and re-telling it in these. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857/54 "2014-08-19T23:43:50Z")
> [@Kiros](#): > > I’m with you as well. I can’t think of anything that would ruin my current goodwill towards the Avengers movie universe more than Spidey getting involved. I really like what’s been going on in the last couple of X-Men movies, and I’d even be hesitant to get _them_ re-integrated. That’s a shame, because in the Age of Ultron book, Spider-Man, certain X-Men, and certain Fantastic Four members play a big role in what happens. I’d like to see that play out, but it can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857/55 "2014-08-20T14:27:33Z")
The X-Men, I think, have a hard time fitting in the same universe as any of the rest of Marvel. The central conflict in X-Men is the public distrust of mutants, and it’s really hard to explain why the public would be fine with people who gain superpowers in freak accidents but are afraid of anyone who’s born that way. Spider-Man _would_ work in the same universe as the rest, except that’s going to be hard to manage now that the main action in the biggest of the shared-universe movies was in New York City, and Spider-Man was nowhere to be seen for it. The only way I can see it working is if Peter Parker didn’t gain his powers until after the Battle of New York, and that means yet another origin story. What would really work well for incorporation into the shared movie universe would be Fantastic Four. In the comics, weren’t the Richards pretty closely involved in the whole Infinity Gauntlet/Thanos thing? ---
**Author:** ![Osiris\_the\_1st](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9de0a6/32.png) [@Osiris\_the\_1st](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Osiris_the_1st)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2014, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857/56 "2014-08-20T14:31:40Z")
> [@Kiros](#): > > I was all ready to name Batman Begins, Iron Man, and a third movie as exemplary origin stories that we probably don’t need to ever reboot… I guess the 1978 Superman? … Being in my mid-thirties, the 1978 _Superman_ is THE origin story for the character for me. The comic book depictions of Superman’s origins, Krypton in particular seemed cartoonish and childish when compared to crystaline sterility of the film version of Krypton. I would argue that that version of Krypton would have fit even better in _Man of Steel_, where we see a society so far removed from our human values that they practice eugenics and consider natural breeding to be heretical. The Krypton depicticed was, to my eye, far to organic to fit with what we saw of their society. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857/57 "2014-08-21T08:47:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The X-Men, I think, have a hard time fitting in the same universe as any of the rest of Marvel. The central conflict in X-Men is the public distrust of mutants, and it’s really hard to explain why the public would be fine with people who gain superpowers in freak accidents but are afraid of anyone who’s born that way. Because Chuck is the worst PR man in history… the problem isn’t being born that way or not, the problem is “we’re homo sapiens superior and you’re on the way out but we shall mercifully allow you to live on as our males’ breeding partners.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857/58 "2014-08-21T10:25:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The X-Men, I think, have a hard time fitting in the same universe as any of the rest of Marvel. The central conflict in X-Men is the public distrust of mutants, and it’s really hard to explain why the public would be fine with people who gain superpowers in freak accidents but are afraid of anyone who’s born that way. Well, from what I’ve heard, the X-Men are usually pretty segregated even in the comics. Crossovers happen, of course, but there’s also a lot of story that wouldn’t fit if you see them as being in the same universe, especially earlier on. And, Nava, that’s Magneto’s version. Why in the world can’t the two species coexist? I’d even argue that mutants are only superior in a limited sense, due to the huge variation of manifestation. A world full of mutants would just split along power lines, since, really, each powerset is more of a difference species. Would you propose that the most powerful should let the rest die out, too? ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857/59 "2014-08-21T11:10:09Z")
Just to give a minor example of how Marvel might introduce heroes in the future, Mockingbird is going to be introduced this season on Agents of SHIELD. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2014, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857/60 "2014-08-21T12:06:32Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’d even argue that mutants are only superior in a limited sense, due to the huge variation of manifestation. A whole lot of mutants just plain don’t have _super_powers - both the old X-men cartoon and the 3rd movie dealt with this issue - no powers to defend themselves, but still get all the anti-mutant discrimination because they are fuck-ugly (to quote _Hot Fuzz_). That’s the majority of the Morlocks, and similar, in a nutshell. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-studios-no-more-origin-stories/695857.md?page=4)