# Marvel: Why reboot NOW? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 26, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955 "2015-08-26T14:59:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/21 "2015-08-26T17:55:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yep. But this reboot wont help. “First teen female Muslim character!” :rolleyes: “Thor is a girl now!!!”:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Have you actually read either of those books? They’re both fantastic, Ms. Marvel in particular. If these books don’t help pull in new readers, the medium is, indeed, dead. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/22 "2015-08-26T17:59:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, the last _Avengers_ movie pulled from the _Age of Ultron_ storyline, which was published in 2013. Disagree on this one: The only thing the plots had in common was the title and idea that Bendis keeps pushing: that Ultron is an AI, not a Robot. The comic version is a badly convoluted time-travel story that seems to have existed only to help set up the current big reboot. (The whole “Oopsie, we broke time itself” thing. ) The movie had no time-travel, the comic pretty much was all time-travel and alternate present/futures. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/23 "2015-08-26T18:01:31Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Have you actually read either of those books? They’re both fantastic, Ms. Marvel in particular. If these books don’t help pull in new readers, the medium is, indeed, dead. Did they ever explain Thor’s big secret that made him stop being able to hold the hammer? Because it’s been like 3 years since the dumb “Someone Stole The Watcher’s Eyeballs and now they’re blabbing unrevealed backstory” story and it’s really about time for them to deal with it if they haven’t. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/24 "2015-08-26T18:01:52Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Have you actually read either of those books? They’re both fantastic, Ms. Marvel in particular. If these books don’t help pull in new readers, the medium is, indeed, dead. Stunt casting just to get the media excited. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/25 "2015-08-26T18:27:05Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Reading the original Lee/Kirby run on _Fantastic Four_ is still a blast, but it also feels very dated (which is why the most recent movie used the 2004 Ultimate reboot for most the first act.) Heh. Imagine if the answer to _“Why reboot now?”_ is _“Welcome to the Marvel Universe! What’s that? No, I’ve never heard of ‘the Fantastic Four’; sounds kinda stupid; are you making that up? Huh. ‘Victor Von Doom’, you say? Seriously? No, doesn’t ring a bell; it does sound even stupider, though, so, y’know, full marks for that.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/26 "2015-08-26T18:41:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Stunt casting just to get the media excited. So, that’s a “no” on having any first hand experience with the media your dismissing, then? Guess we can treat your opinions about it the same way. (One of those “stunt casting” comics [Just won a Hugo](http://comicsalliance.com/hugo-awards-2015-ms-marvel/), FTR.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/27 "2015-08-26T18:42:09Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Did they ever explain Thor’s big secret that made him stop being able to hold the hammer? Because it’s been like 3 years since the dumb “Someone Stole The Watcher’s Eyeballs and now they’re blabbing unrevealed backstory” story and it’s really about time for them to deal with it if they haven’t. I’m actually behind on Thor right now - last ish I read, they’d just revealed that it was Jane under the helmet. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/28 "2015-08-26T18:50:57Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Disagree on this one: The only thing the plots had in common was the title and idea that Bendis keeps pushing: that Ultron is an AI, not a Robot. The comic version is a badly convoluted time-travel story that seems to have existed only to help set up the current big reboot. (The whole “Oopsie, we broke time itself” thing. ) > > The movie had no time-travel, the comic pretty much was all time-travel and alternate present/futures. Yeah, fair point. Still, there’s a reason they didn’t call it _Avengers 2: Annhilation: Conquest_. (Although when looking around for alternate subtitles, I realized that _Avengers 2: The Hundred Heads of Ultron_ would have been both significantly more awesome, and more thematically appropriate, than _Age of Ultron_.) ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/29 "2015-08-26T19:29:24Z")
I wonder if a solution to the “continuity tying itself in knots” problem — which will eventually happen to the new Marvel universe as surely as it happened to the old — is to do away with regular monthly titles altogether. Just let the creators pitch a good, complete arc for a marquee character, then put it out as a limited series (four issues, six issues, twelve issues, it doesn’t matter), then done, and move on to the next one. There’s no need for the titles to relate to each other in any particular way; you could make sure that the really popular characters like Spidey, X-Men and the Avengers always have a few titles on the shelf to encourage casual buyers; and as \*\* Miller\*\* suggested, it’s a great way to find the kind of strong ideas that can cross over to the movies or to Netflix. And if a team is having an exceptional run with a particular character, there’s no reason they can’t stay together on that character and release stories one after the other. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/30 "2015-08-26T20:59:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Mark Millar has a lot to answer for. He ruined Robo-Hunter. ---
**Author:** ![ElderSign](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eldersign/32/8263_2.png) [@ElderSign](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElderSign)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/31 "2015-08-26T21:18:53Z")
Why reboot now? Crossovers and hyped reboots are easy sellers even if they destroy the industry long term. The fanboys eat them up, as indicated by the Top 100 sales charts. Comic book movies have traditionally made ZERO impact on actual comic book sales. I recall the observation back when the 1989 Batman film came out, which also echoed that the 1960s Batman TV show did not increase Batman sales either. So the demographics is different. I don’t know any kids who love Avengers or teens who dig AoS who even have read ONE actual comic book. Anyway, I’ve been a collector since the 1970s and my collection contains much older stuff. I have to admit the final straw for me from reading new comics every month was price, although content and poor editorial decisions played roles as well. Marvel lost me with the frequent crossovers and multiple spinoff titles. It was bad enough when Spider-Man had multiple titles, but in recent years there are too many spinoff titles, mini-series, and one-shots. I also didn’t like the whole Spider-Man/Mephisto/Mary Jane angle, and how Parker showed no evolution or maturity in his own title after it. The Ultimate Universe was a sales failure, and that was supposed to have been the new Marvel Universe of the future, although I know hardcore Miles Morales fans in person and on boards. I no longer believe DC or Marvel when they claim they are making things simpler. DC’s New 52 was overkill with so many titles to buy, track, and remember. I tried, but I lost my enthusiasm. Both companies have too many titles and special events. I thought the digital revolution would help them, but based on someone’s comment here, sales are lagging. I’ll occasionally read comics, but the new era just rubs me the wrong way, with few exceptions (I liked Hickman’s FF, but was turned off by another spinoff). ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/32 "2015-08-26T22:07:39Z")
I may get a couple (or all) details wrong, because I’m damned if I research this, but in the early 1960s Marvel as a company was hanging on by a thread. One of their problems was that it was limited in how many comics it could produce because a deal (with DC) meant that it had only eight mailing permits. Eight mailing permits meant eight titles. For the first several years even the now super-major characters like Thor and Iron Man had to share a title with another character. DC wasn’t that large either. If you limited their world to superheroes then they might have had a dozen titles. So even a kid could read the entire output of the company easily (and for a dollar a month). Nobody needs 52 superhero titles. Nobody can read them all; nobody can afford them all. Yet doing constant crossovers and whole-company events means that even a regular reader of a dozen titles can get totally lost because the story is told in 24 titles plus a dozen special titles put out just for the crossover. It doesn’t matter what the story is. Good, bad, or ugly, only the tiniest handful of readers will grasp it. Comics will never die, but DC and Marvel have killed their superhero comics by these idiocies. A comic title may bring in $1 million in revenue over a year. ($3.99 x 50,000 x 12 x 50% wholesale.) A major movie may bring in $100 million over a year. (10% x $1 billion worldwide gross and not including the endless revenue streams of DVDs and streaming and whatnot. Plus television and cartoons and merchandise and…) Who in their right minds would have the comics drive the business in that world? Especially when the comics deliberately shut out new readers? Marvel needed to change its model. I have no idea if the reboot is working, but the need for a reboot was long overdue. ---
**Author:** ![DeptfordX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DeptfordX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeptfordX)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/33 "2015-08-26T22:50:55Z")
Remember, hype aside comics aren’t that popular. Here’s the latest sales figures for July > **[Comichron: July 2015 Comic Book Sales to Comics Shops](https://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2015/2015-07.html)** > > Estimated comic book and graphic novel sales to North American comic shops The most popular comic in America can’t crack 250,000 sales, most can’t break the 25,000 mark. Movies (and tie in merchandise/marketing deals) are where the money is. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/34 "2015-08-26T23:20:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, that’s a “no” on having any first hand experience with the media your dismissing, then? > > Guess we can treat your opinions about it the same way. > > (One of those “stunt casting” comics [Just won a Hugo](http://comicsalliance.com/hugo-awards-2015-ms-marvel/), FTR.) Read them. Meh. Art was fine. Story fine. Political stunt-casting. (And I never cared for ms Marvel) BtW, those Hugos? “\* Ms. Marvel’ Wins at Hugo Awards Dogged by Political Manipulations”\* ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/35 "2015-08-26T23:52:20Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Political stunt-casting. So what are you saying, that there shouldn’t be any female Muslim superheroes? That the writer, G. Willow Wilson - despite being both female and a Muslim herself - was pandering to political correctness by not making the hero a white male? I’m not trying to caricature what you’re saying here - I literally can’t see any other way to parse what you’re saying besides “having a female, Muslim superhero is inherently a bad thing.” This isn’t even like Wally West where they took an established character and changed his race - this is an entirely new character other than the reusing of an old character’s abandoned code name. By the way, Ms. Marvel is an excellent comic, and the protagonist is funny and endearing. Personally I’d love to see a few more upbeat, likeable superheroes - whatever their ethnicity. (That said, I also think more diversity in comics is a good thing.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/36 "2015-08-27T00:06:04Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Read them. Meh. Art was fine. Story fine. Political stunt-casting. (And I never cared for ms Marvel) > > BtW, those Hugos? “\* Ms. Marvel’ Wins at Hugo Awards Dogged by Political Manipulations”\* Dogged by political manipulations designed to keep books like _Ms. Marvel_ off the ballot. So, yeah, that’s actually a pretty significant win. And I’m on the same page as **tim314** regarding your posts here. Would it be possible, in your considered opinion, to have a female Muslim in a comic book that _isn’t_ stunt casting? What would that look like, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/37 "2015-08-27T03:21:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Dogged by political manipulations designed to keep books like _Ms. Marvel_ off the ballot. So, yeah, that’s actually a pretty significant win. > > And I’m on the same page as **tim314** regarding your posts here. Would it be possible, in your considered opinion, to have a female Muslim in a comic book that _isn’t_ stunt casting? What would that look like, exactly? _And,_ Liberal groups pushing for the other side. In any case, the Hugos have become so politicized they are not longer a gauge for greatness, just for popularity in a small cadre of voters. Maybe not Ms Marvel? Maybe a new heroine? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/38 "2015-08-27T03:24:41Z")
Ms. Marvel _is_ a new heroine. I thought you said you’d read the book? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/39 "2015-08-27T03:26:50Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > So what are you saying, that there shouldn’t be any female Muslim superheroes? That the writer, G. Willow Wilson - despite being both female and a Muslim herself - was pandering to political correctness by not making the hero a white male? > > I’m not trying to caricature what you’re saying here - I literally can’t see any other way to parse what you’re saying besides “having a female, Muslim superhero is inherently a bad thing.” This isn’t even like Wally West where they took an established character and changed his race - this is an entirely new character other than the reusing of an old character’s abandoned code name. > > By the way, Ms. Marvel is an excellent comic, and the protagonist is funny and endearing. Personally I’d love to see a few more upbeat, likeable superheroes - whatever their ethnicity. (That said, I also think more diversity in comics is a good thing.) Yep, the way to win debates is calling the other guy a racist, here in Cafe Society. Nice move. Especially as I didnt say anything at all like that, and included the Female Thor as a equal example. They were even quoted: "As part of a continuing effort to diversify its offerings, Marvel Comics has put out a series whose lead character, Kamala Khan, is a teenage Muslim girl living in Jersey City. " She was there to diversify, which is stunt casting. Why not a new hero? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/40 "2015-08-27T03:28:04Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Ms. Marvel _is_ a new heroine. I thought you said you’d read the book? New since 1968?😕 > **[Ms. Marvel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ms._Marvel)** > > Ms. Marvel is the name of several superheroines appearing in comic books published by Marvel Comics. The character was originally conceived as a female counterpart to the superhero Mar-Vell / Captain Marvel. Like Captain Marvel, most of the bearers of the Ms. Marvel codename gain their powers through Kree technology or genetics. The first incarnation of Ms. Marvel, Carol Danvers, first appeared in Marvel Super-Heroes #13 (March 1968). The second incarnation, Sharon Ventura, debuted in The Thin... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955.md?page=3)