# Marvel: Why reboot NOW? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 26, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955 "2015-08-26T14:59:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/41 "2015-08-27T03:40:21Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > New since 1968?😕 > > [Ms. Marvel - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ms._Marvel) Carol Danvers has been Captain Marvel since 2012-they are referring to the very popular Kamala Khan. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/42 "2015-08-27T03:46:11Z")
No, new since 2013. The character introduced in 1968 was Carol Danvers, who now goes by Captain Marvel. Kamala Khan is an entirely new character, with a different background, origin, and power set. She’s an entirely original character. She just uses an existing (but, at the time, unused) name. Maybe you don’t read a lot of comics, but this is actually pretty common. They’ve done it with Batman, Superman (regrettably), the Flash (a _lot_), Robin (also a lot), Blue Beetle, Captain America (and not just the Falcon), Green Lantern, Wolverine, and a whole host of others. Were all of those stunt casting, or is it just when the replacement isn’t a white guy that you have a problem with it? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/43 "2015-08-27T03:48:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Carol Danvers has been Captain Marvel since 2012-they are referring to the very popular Kamala Khan. Who has inherited the mantle of Ms Marvel, a character which has been around since 1968. Danvers is now Captain Marvel. There have been many superheroes who have passed the powers and names on. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/44 "2015-08-27T03:49:23Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > N…is it just when the replacement isn’t a white guy that you have a problem with it? Yep, the way to win debates is calling the other guy a racist, here in Cafe Society. Nice move. I am done with you guys. I dont like a comic, and you call me a racist. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/45 "2015-08-27T03:57:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Who has inherited the mantle of Ms Marvel, a character which has been around since 1968. Danvers is now Captain Marvel. > > There have been many superheroes who have passed the powers and names on. There were no powers passed on. Totally different skill set, and they didn’t even meet until the end of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/46 "2015-08-27T04:06:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yep, the way to win debates is calling the other guy a racist, here in Cafe Society. Nice move. > > I am done with you guys. I dont like a comic, and you call me a racist. If you just didn’t like the comic, fine. But you’re dismissing it as stunt casting, without explaining what makes Kamala Khan different from the hundreds of other times they’ve introduced a new character under an old hero’s name. The only difference _I_ can see is that she’s a Muslim. What difference are you seeing, that makes this any different than when they replaced Hank Pym with Scott Lang in the Ant-Man suit? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/47 "2015-08-27T04:39:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Stunt casting just to get the media excited. I haven’t been picking up _Thor,_ but there’s some neat visual design on the new Thor. (And I’m old enough to remember Beta Ray Bill, and I’ve read the early Larry Lieber Thor stories; so I’m not thrown by a new person becoming Thor.) _Ms. Marvel_ does pretty well, I think. I like the art, and while one of the arcs so far was maybe an issue or two too long, it’s mostly pretty fun. And of course Kelly Sue DeConnick & David Lopez did amazing work on _Captain Marvel_. Now, if you’re reading only Marvel comics with Captain America, Spider-Man, the Hulk, or Iron Man, yeah, those probably do suck. I hear \*Silk \*is pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/48 "2015-08-27T06:44:51Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > If you just didn’t like the comic, fine. But you’re dismissing it as stunt casting, without explaining what makes Kamala Khan different from the hundreds of other times they’ve introduced a new character under an old hero’s name. The only difference _I_ can see is that she’s a Muslim. What difference are you seeing, that makes this any different than when they replaced Hank Pym with Scott Lang in the Ant-Man suit? As far as the accusation of pandering goes, the part that I don’t like is not that she is a female member of a religious and ethnic minority, it’s that she’s also a member of the most obnoxious branch of fandom, the Real Person Shipper. I also actively dislike the Inhumans and Marvel’s efforts to shove them into the spotlight and think the lone member of her Rogues’ Gallery is awful, but her being one of those people who would upon meeting a celebrity tell them that she writes fanfiction about them and ships them with other celebrities is not something I find endearing. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/49 "2015-08-27T11:37:10Z")
> [@ElderSign](#): > > Comic book movies have traditionally made ZERO impact on actual comic book sales. I recall the observation back when the 1989 Batman film came out, which also echoed that the 1960s Batman TV show did not increase Batman sales either. OK, so the question is: why not? Have they tried to make a better connection between them? The only case I can think of is putting the Samuel L Jackson Nick Fury and Agent Coulson into the comics. It seems dead simple to convert at least part of the movie audience. Step 1: have at least one comic series that is recognizably coherent with the movies. (Doesn’t have to fit intertwined perfectly. Just have recognizable characters in roughly the same state as the latest movie.) Step 2: keep that comic continuity free and episodic, with maybe some short, 3 or 4 issue arcs, but easy to jump into. AND put good writers and artists on it. You want this to sell people on comics, not be disposable. Step 3: give away an issue with each movie ticket, or each blu-ray sale. (Free comic book day is great, but you have to already be a comic book geek to know about it, and have to find a store on your own.) Step 4: at the back of the free book, say “want more? here’s a link to a comic shop locator and/or our subscription service.” Boom! Gateway drug. As Fenris said, you reboot to simplify, not make things more inscrutable… ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/50 "2015-08-27T11:51:44Z")
DC: hey, let’s make one of those pseudo-reboots we half-ass every ten years or so. We restart most characters from scratch, except we sort of leave Batman continuity alone, but not really. Fans love that crap. -52 is gigantically successful Marvel: You know what we should do? That. We should do that. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/51 "2015-08-27T20:39:33Z")
Was Nu52 actually successful, though? DC lurches around desperately more than Marvel does. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/52 "2015-08-27T22:12:23Z")
NU52 was a huge hit (IIRC–I don’t have the sales figures) for about 4-6 months, but that may largely have been the fact that they started release day e-comics at the same time. (In other words, it may have been the distribution, not the content). But when they started hemorrhaging artists and writers because editorial was micromanaging stories–inconsistently–their sales dropped\* \*George Perez, who’s generally considered one of the most affiable people in comics–I’ve never heard anyone say anything bad about Perez’s ability to get along–quit DC with some pretty harsh statements. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/53 "2015-08-28T00:13:32Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No, new since 2013. The character introduced in 1968 was Carol Danvers, who now goes by Captain Marvel. Kamala Khan is an entirely new character, with a different background, origin, and power set. She’s an entirely original character. She just uses an existing (but, at the time, unused) name. Maybe you don’t read a lot of comics, but this is actually pretty common. They’ve done it with Batman, Superman (regrettably), the Flash (a _lot_), Robin (also a lot), Blue Beetle, Captain America (and not just the Falcon), Green Lantern, Wolverine, and a whole host of others. Were all of those stunt casting, or is it just when the replacement isn’t a white guy that you have a problem with it? Since you know a lot about this, sincere question: Is girl Thor actually referred to as Thor, or is she a super heroine with Mjolnir that stars in a comic book named Thor for continuity sake? Because I have no problem with pretty much literally no other superhero being made a woman, but continuing to call as female superhero “Thor” is kinda dumb. If she’s just someone who was found worthy of Mjolnir and they understandably didn’t want to go about re-branding the comic, that’s cool. (I can’t wait for Marvel to release Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, it may be the first superhero comic I ever buy because it sounds amazing) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/54 "2015-08-28T00:43:39Z")
She’s actually going by Thor. The guy who used to go by Thor is now going by the name Odinson. They basically just suddenly decided that “Thor” is a title, which really makes no sense at all, and entirely at odds with the character’s continuity. It’s a really good comic overall, but that part was pretty dumb. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/55 "2015-08-28T01:01:26Z")
Beta Ray Bill, Thunderstrike, and Frog Thor were all sort of also “Thor” at different points. So, no, it’s not out of nowhere. This is one of those “depending on the writer” things. In the early stories, Donald Blake became Thor by using the hammer’s power. Later writers decided that Thor should have been born the god Thor, and that got retconned. So he was the son of Odin and Gaea(!), who just got turned into Donald Blake for a while. :rolleyes: But the power of Thor is supposed to go to a worthy wielder of the hammer; that’s Marvel canon. So, right now, the hero formerly known as Thor, son of Odin and Gaea, is going by “Odinson” and Jane Foster is Thor. And she\* is\* Thor, officiallly. And of course, if you ask the Shocker, all those guys–all the Asgardian heroes–are “Thors” in the same sense that Bruce, Jen, Betty, and ol’ Thunderbolt are “Hulks.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/56 "2015-08-28T04:19:26Z")
DrDeth: I don’t think you can argue that they didn’t add the new Ms. Marvel to be more inclusive. But calling it “stunt casting” implies that she’s just a token, that they did the bare minimum to get her in there, but then forgot about it. Instead, they’ve done a lot of good work with her, or so I’ve heard. Which brings me to my other point: I fully understand why comics aren’t doing well. These stories all seem interesting to me. But the cost per entertainment ratio just isn’t reasonable for comics. You pay like $4 (last I checked) for a single issue that won’t even be a complete story or even complete part of a story. It takes at most 15 minutes to read, if you go slow. In a world where you can by a 45 minute episode of a show for $1-$3, the pricing just doesn’t make sense. (Plus, frankly, I liked the old, less realistic art. You know, cartoon art. And, while I said these stories interest me, the more fun stories of the past interest me even more.) ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/57 "2015-08-28T04:55:43Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > . . . (Plus, frankly, I liked the old, less realistic art. You know, cartoon art. And, while I said these stories interest me, the more fun stories of the past interest me even more.) Wow… I gotta disagree (tastes differ and all that.) The improvement in the quality of art in comics is the single best thing to happen. (The second best thing is the phasing out of exploitive ads, such as “Sell Grit” or “X-Ray Specs,” or “Charles Atlas bodybuilding.” Now the ads are good, honest, fair-play ads.) (The third best thing is the death of the goddamned comics code authority, and some actual swear words now and fucking then, plus some honest depictions of violence.) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/58 "2015-08-28T04:58:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yep. But this reboot wont help. “First teen female Muslim character!” :rolleyes: _[Cough](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_%28comics%29)_ (of course, like most tokens this character was still problematic - of course the Muslim girl is in a burqa, and of course she’s got desert-based powers ! Cause Muslims live in the desert, duh.) ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/59 "2015-08-28T05:11:09Z")
Well, being “first” is less important than being done well and being kept up. Sooraya hasn’t had her own series as yet. Kamala is the star and viewpoint character of her own series, and gets to guest-star (in Spider-Man and SHIELD so far) as herself, not just a small part of a group. So that is a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955/60 "2015-08-28T05:25:50Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > _[Cough](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_%28comics%29)_ > > (of course, like most tokens this character was still problematic - of course the Muslim girl is in a burqa, and of course she’s got desert-based powers ! Cause Muslims live in the desert, duh.) I really like this Marvel/DC analogy Linkara made a few years ago (I have no idea what DC has been doing since 2013 so take this as dated if it’s outdated. I’m mostly posting it for the Marvel bit) > [@Linkara](#): > > Marvel is a middle class, middle America white dude who’s been pulled from his suburban all-white high school to go to college with a bunch of people who are different than him. > > He’s that dick who goes to the women’s studies class to ‘meet chicks,’ and calls everyone bro, and doesn’t really GET why his Cinco De Mayo party is really, really kinda racist. But he talks to people who don’t look exactly like him and when he’s told that he’s being a dick he mostly listens and sure he’s still got Maxim covers up on his wall, but now he can talk to girls without trying to hit on them. > > DC’s the guy who went to the college of people JUST LIKE HIM and entered a frat and hangs out on /bchan and takes pictures of girls who are drunk and falling out of their shirts without their knowledge and text them to everyone he knows, even the girls who are kind of like, ugh. > > So Marvel has figured out that if he wants to get a date, or more importantly, a second date, he needs to start dealing with women and other people as human beings and he’s not perfect and he’s still gonna get dumped when he mutters a vaguely homophobic epithet at the waiter at a restaurant, but he’s listening in classes and his roommate’s cool and they become friends even though they’re different races and eventually he ends up in a suite where half his roommates are women who explain that the “make me a sandwich” shirt is the reason he’s NOT GETTING LAID. And he stops wearing that shirt, except when he’s really drunk and stupid. > > Meanwhile, DC is on facebook, telling boob jokes and then bitterly calling women bitches for not having sex with him and going back to hang out at the local high school football games despite the fact that it gets sadder every year, because everyone who used to like him has grown up and moved out and moved away and he’s still there, still talking to teenagers, except he doesn’t know the lingo and they’re not interested in what he has to say. > **[Marvel vs DC: the Dudebro analogy](https://atopfourthwall.tumblr.com/post/60469987063)** > > me: It's sad how progressive Marvel looks while standing next to DC. It's completely amazing. > > Kara: which is kind of awful too because Marvel needs help too Marvel needs help DC needs to be in an in… (He also did a meaner one a year ago lambasting DC for making excuses about diversity [here](http://atopfourthwall.tumblr.com/post/92615146888)) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvel-why-reboot-now/728955.md?page=4)