# Marvel's Agents of SHIELD **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 2, 2017, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409 "2017-12-02T23:32:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409/301 "2018-05-21T15:50:23Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > \ > Since I never commented on them: > > - I hated the living Bratz doll and her mom and no tears are being shed now that they’re dead. Abso-friggin-lutely. Buh-BYE! > [@](#): > > - Yo-Yo is really annoying me and her motivations are stupid and shortsighted and her relationship with Mack isn’t even that compelling to me anymore. I’m not really sure how they repair all the damage she’s done to the team with her doing things her way, not the way the team wanted them. > [@](#): > > - Fitz is a damn good actor and it’s a shame he’ll likely never see any benefits from that Plus, he’s super-hot with his new face-scruff. 🙂 > [@](#): > > - The Deke/Daisy storyline is dumb as well for many reasons. The show doesn’t need another lovesick person on it \ But…but - DEKEY! 🙂 > [@E-DUB](#): > > Is the term “African American” appropriate when discussing an alien? I’d go with “Pigmentally enhanced.” > [@Dendarii\_Dame](#): > > When May and Coulson kissed behind the force field, my husband (Andy L) said, “SHIELD with a kiss!” #Respect ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409/302 "2018-05-21T15:58:30Z")
I have to admit, I had forgotten about Fitz-sicle, so they really had me going when he was trapped by the rubble (oh crap!), then it looked like he was going to be freed (yay!), then it was revealed he was impaled by that thing and was bleeding out (sad!), and then the switcharoo with the ‘wake’ for Coulson. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409/303 "2018-05-21T20:18:41Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > I have to admit, I had forgotten about Fitz-sicle, so they really had me going when he was trapped by the rubble (oh crap!), then it looked like he was going to be freed (yay!), then it was revealed he was impaled by that thing and was bleeding out (sad!), and then the switcharoo with the ‘wake’ for Coulson. They had me (and Mrs. Cups) for a while. It was only after being so vague on the rest of the episode and when Coulson said “This is a celebration, not a funeral” did I think “Ok, what’s the swerve.” They did just a little too much “OMG GUYS HE’S, LIKE, TOTALLY DEAD” and played their hand. Back when we thought Fitz was actually dead (which, I guess he is actually dead but…whatever), Mrs. Cups kept saying “Why would they kill the best actor on the whole show?” And speaking of acting, huge props to Gemma for her reaction shot. Can someone explain to me exactly how the Fitzcicle works? What’s the difference between the Fitz that died and the one in cryofreeze? IIRC the one that died is technically the woken up Fitz from the future who was sent to the past when they successfully beat Cassius. Which means the original Fitz who froze himself is still frozen? Because he doesn’t know the timeline changed? But why didn’t he blink from existence like Deke did? Also also, do we have a consensus as to what actually changed the timeline? Daisy shotgunning Gravitron into space? Also also also, this makes the third person they killed by spacing (Sparky and Ward) come on…get original! ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409/304 "2018-05-21T20:20:58Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > They had me (and Mrs. Cups) for a while. It was only after being so vague on the rest of the episode and when Coulson said “This is a celebration, not a funeral” did I think “Ok, what’s the swerve.” They did just a little too much “OMG GUYS HE’S, LIKE, TOTALLY DEAD” and played their hand. > > Back when we thought Fitz was actually dead (which, I guess he is actually dead but…whatever), Mrs. Cups kept saying “Why would they kill the best actor on the whole show?” And speaking of acting, huge props to Gemma for her reaction shot. > > Can someone explain to me exactly how the Fitzcicle works? What’s the difference between the Fitz that died and the one in cryofreeze? IIRC the one that died is technically the woken up Fitz from the future who was sent to the past when they successfully beat Cassius. Which means the original Fitz who froze himself is still frozen? Because he doesn’t know the timeline changed? But why didn’t he blink from existence like Deke did? > > Also also, do we have a consensus as to what actually changed the timeline? Daisy shotgunning Gravitron into space? > > Also also also, this makes the third person they killed by spacing (Sparky and Ward) come on…get original! This Fitz would be completely unaware of he events in the future, completely unaware of his own actions during this season, and completely unaware of Zeke’s potential existence. Gemma will have alot of 'splainin to do. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409/305 "2018-05-21T20:25:42Z")
What probably happened in originalverse was Daisy tried to get loose/destroy GraviTalbot by using her force downward, instead of flipping around and using it upward. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409/306 "2018-05-21T20:39:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What probably happened in originalverse was Daisy tried to get loose/destroy GraviTalbot by using her force downward, instead of flipping around and using it upward. I thought the difference was that in the original timeline, Coulson took the centipede serum instead of giving it to Daisy, so Talbot absorbed her and used the quake powers combined with gravitonium powers to destroy the Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409/307 "2018-05-21T20:57:53Z")
From FrozenFitz’s point of view, they were all at the Diner after escaping the Framework and then in a flash, everyone disappeared. He got locked up by Hale and spent months figuring out what happened. Then he got busted out of prison, went to the lighthouse, and bald robot guy froze him for safe keeping in the future. The next thing he’ll know is the team finding and un-freezing him. He missed posing as a space ruffian to try to acquire the Destroyer of Worlds, the marriage proposal, the escape back to the present, the defeat of Hale and her daughter, Talbot absorbing the gravitonium, the wedding, Zeke, his psychotic split and removing Daisy’s inhibitor, and everything leading up to the fight with Talbot and his death. Basically, everything after the second or third episode of the season. Right? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409/308 "2018-05-21T21:06:37Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > From FrozenFitz’s point of view, they were all at the Diner after escaping the Framework and then in a flash, everyone disappeared. He got locked up by Hale and spent months figuring out what happened. Then he got busted out of prison, went to the lighthouse, and bald robot guy froze him for safe keeping in the future. The next thing he’ll know is the team finding and un-freezing him. > > He missed posing as a space ruffian to try to acquire the Destroyer of Worlds, the marriage proposal, the escape back to the present, the defeat of Hale and her daughter, Talbot absorbing the gravitonium, the wedding, Zeke, his psychotic split and removing Daisy’s inhibitor, and everything leading up to the fight with Talbot and his death. Basically, everything after the second or third episode of the season. Right? Yep. So basically, between this, the Framework, and getting stuck at the bottom of the ocean, Fitz is going to be really screwed up. Also, if they save Fitz, do they also save Enoch? ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409/309 "2018-05-21T21:21:53Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Yep. So basically, between this, the Framework, and getting stuck at the bottom of the ocean, Fitz is going to be really screwed up. > > Also, if they save Fitz, do they also save Enoch? I thought Enoch launched Fitz but stayed on Earth? Although I may be mis-remembering that, since there was another Watcher type so I guess Enoch is in the spaceship with Fitz. So, yeah - I think they get Enoch back (which is great, I liked that character). ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409/310 "2018-05-22T15:39:37Z")
Did they ever acknowledge the frozen Fitz until just now? I’m still confused over this (And why I HATE time-travel plots). How is there a second Fitz when coming back from the future reset everything? Or did they warp back into the past after Fitz was already frozen? and how did they know that? ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409/311 "2018-05-22T16:01:49Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > Did they ever acknowledge the frozen Fitz until just now? > > I’m still confused over this (And why I HATE time-travel plots). How is there a second Fitz when coming back from the future reset everything? Or did they warp back into the past after Fitz was already frozen? and how did they know that? They had to return to a point after Fitz was already frozen, because they found the “Working On It” postcard that Fitz had left behind in the Lighthouse. It was a fresh copy, not the old & faded one they found in the future. So yes, there’s definitely a Fitzicle somewhere in the solar system. Nothing they did could reset him, since their own personal timeline still includes them being kidnapped from the diner and sent to the future. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409/312 "2018-05-22T17:57:50Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > I’m still confused over this (And why I HATE time-travel plots). How is there a second Fitz when coming back from the future reset everything? Or did they warp back into the past after Fitz was already frozen? and how did they know that? This is one of the reasons I generally dislike time travel story lines as well. We don’t know if Deke faded out of existence when the timeline changed. If he did, would the Fitzicle do the same? There’s no way to answer definitively; it’s all up to what the writers want to happen. I didn’t catch that the postcard was in it’s original state, not the faded one from the future. They could have brought back the future postcard like they did with the Fitz’s pocket knife - there were two copies of that side by side. There’s no reason Fitz couldn’t have met Fitz prime unless the universe conspires to eliminate paradoxes like that. All in all, it’s best not to think about it too much. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409/313 "2018-05-22T18:16:45Z")
That sounds about right. I’ll just trust the writers that they know what they’re doing and eagerly anticipate the next season that’s now over a year away ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409/314 "2018-05-23T00:52:49Z")
I also hate time-travel loop story lines. I need a diagram to understand what the hell is going on, and even that doesn’t always work. :mad: So, we don’t actually know what happened to Deke (I just looked it up); he might have just up and left, or he might have blinked out of existence? ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409/315 "2018-05-23T01:08:28Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I also hate time-travel loop story lines. I need a diagram to understand what the hell is going on, and even that doesn’t always work. :mad: > > So, we don’t actually know what happened to Deke (I just looked it up); he might have just up and left, or he might have blinked out of existence? I think the main reveal is that Gemma picked up the swiss army knife off the table. It was passed down to him, so its not something that he would have left lying around. So … Toast. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409/316 "2018-05-23T02:08:27Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > I think the main reveal is that Gemma picked up the swiss army knife off the table. It was passed down to him, so its not something that he would have left lying around. So … Toast. But why would the knife be there? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409/317 "2018-05-23T03:41:32Z")
> [@simster](#): > > But why would the knife be there? At one point we had two of them, now there is only one. Did the extra one _blink_ out of existence? ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409/318 "2018-05-23T12:36:40Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > At one point we had two of them, now there is only one. Did the extra one _blink_ out of existence? The knife that Jemma picked up was still new & shiny looking, so it was Fitz’s. Deke’s was old, worn, & discolored. Presumably he took it with him when he left the Lighthouse. So either he’s still got it as he’s wandering the world, or it blinked out with him. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409/319 "2018-05-23T13:13:14Z")
There’s no reason why frozen Fitz should disappear - he’s not a time-traveler, and his past hasn’t changed. In fact, out of the whole team he’s by far the most stable, temporally speaking. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409/320 "2018-05-23T15:53:13Z")
Right. If they un-freeze Frozen Fitz, then _dead_ Fitz should blink out existence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-agents-of-shield/803409.md?page=17)