# Marvel's Secondary Mutations **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 25, 2004, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-secondary-mutations/276582 "2004-11-25T01:38:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-secondary-mutations/276582/41 "2004-11-30T15:00:15Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > He melts, goes down the drain, and re-forms as Sewage Man Although I haven’t read the X-Men other than Morrison’s run for years, I understand that there’s already been an issue where Bobby forms a new body for himself from Havok’s urine. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-secondary-mutations/276582/42 "2004-11-30T22:34:58Z")
Were they in the freakin’ desert or something? Just use the humidity in the air. That’s just … wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-secondary-mutations/276582/43 "2004-12-01T00:02:34Z")
According to the UXN cite I linked to, Iceman is now an omega class mutant, capable of surviving as ice, water, or water vapor. For all intents and purposes, he’s invincible. Angel is wielding Ilyana Rasputin’s sword? Supposedly it’s only usable by the “Darkchilde.” Last I heard that meant the sword was as unsharable as Thor’s hammer. As far as Rogue being the toughest, if she gets a grip on all of the powers, you betcha. She’s demonstrated the use of the powers of Cyclops, Storm, Colossus, Nightcrawler, and Wolverine. I know she’s tried to drain Magneto and has hit a couple of the Avengers as well. :eek: Now that I think about it, she may have even touched Thor. I’m reaching way back on that. In the X-Mens first run with Genosha, she had her powers stolen and all of the people in her brain tried to have a scrum. There were quite a few there and I think Thor was one of them. That would be some freaky shizzle. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-secondary-mutations/276582/44 "2004-12-01T00:11:06Z")
How does she manage to use Cyke’s power? It’s inherently uncontrolable. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-secondary-mutations/276582/45 "2004-12-01T01:10:24Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > How does she manage to use Cyke’s power? It’s inherently uncontrolable. Not so. He suffered a blow to the head as a child, which damaged the part of his brain that controls his powers. Look to the X-men/Alpha Flight Giant Size 2 parter, when he’s ‘healed’ along with Wolverine and Rogue, who gain control of their respective powers. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-secondary-mutations/276582/46 "2004-12-01T01:15:34Z")
So he no longer needs ruby quartz to control the beams? Why does he still wear the visor then? ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-secondary-mutations/276582/47 "2004-12-01T01:27:24Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > So he no longer needs ruby quartz to control the beams? Why does he still wear the visor then? The ‘cure’ was removed when Loki removed the spells that gave Heather Hudson her power to heal. So yes, Cyke still can’t control his power, just not because it’s uncontrollable by nature, but because he’s brain damaged. However Rogue can, because she doesn’t have the brain injury that prevents Cyke from controlling his power. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-secondary-mutations/276582/48 "2004-12-01T01:35:51Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Like I said Krocodil, Iceman is flesh no more due to a secondary mutation. His only form is the ice/water/vapor body. Whether this change is permanent or not depends on the writers, but for now he really is an Ice man. Note that this change is pretty darned permanant since it first occured in Uncanny X-Men #8, circa 1963! His original form was a snowman–in that ver early issue, he learned to change to ice (there was about a page detailing how kewl it was that he could do this) and was drawn transparent from time to time. Hec, I just dug up the issue and the first time he learns to do it, he’s standing in front of a big metal mesh thingie and he’s clearly transparent (Angel comments that Iceman’s becoming a “regular Sue Storm”), so obviously there’s no meat-body under the ice. Human Torch was going through a similar phase during this period. In one issue of Strange Tales from about the same time period, somebody shot at him while he was flying but the bullets went through his body of flame (this was _quickly_ ignored…and it may have been an FF issue instead…but I think it was Strange Tales) and I think in an early FF Annual, a “How Do Their Powers Work” feature point-blank said that Torch’s body becomes flame (which was how he flies) Finally, IMO, the “secondary mutations” concept that Morrison came up with was (IIRC) designed in large part to explain how the Toad went from the Peter Lorrie-esque character he was to the movie-version look-alike and he codified a bunch of other changes under that banner as well. As good a retcon as any, I suppose! 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-secondary-mutations/276582/49 "2004-12-01T01:42:22Z")
I’m not saying the ice body is the change, just the fact that he can’t go back to human form. That’s the secondary mutation. No more human form, ever. The only way he regains his human form is essentially a writer switch. To make this clear, Iceman used to change from ice to human, but no more. That’s the secondary mutation. Iceman is all ice, all the time. ---
**Author:** ![VampyChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/5daacb/32.png) [@VampyChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VampyChick)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-secondary-mutations/276582/50 "2004-12-01T05:04:28Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Angel is wielding Ilyana Rasputin’s sword? Supposedly it’s only usable by the “Darkchilde.” Last I heard that meant the sword was as unsharable as Thor’s hammer. You’ve got to remember, he got the sword from _Exiles_ Ilyana. She’s from another reality, and so is the sword. Different rules may apply. She didn’t seem too pissed about him stealing her sword, she just kind of…made another one. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-secondary-mutations/276582/51 "2004-12-01T09:29:10Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > However Rogue can, because she doesn’t have the brain injury that prevents Cyke from controlling his power. Oddly enough, Cykes never has this fixed by any _another_ character with healing powers. (Like the old, fake, Xorn. Or the new, possibly not fake, Xorn.) Another odd twist…I thought Rogue _did_ have to wear Ruby-Quartz glasses, for awhile, after gaining the ability to re-manifest the powers she’d absorbed over her life. (Maybe she just hadn’t learned how to turn them off…perhaps there’s some little mental trick you have to learn to turn the eyebeams off, but that Scott never had a chance to learn because of the brain damage. Kinda like people who regain their sight after being blind since early childhood have trouble seeing because their brains never “learned” how to interperet visual information.) Anyway—I know Rogue and Gambit have their powers back, but is her power-absorbing still permenantly stuck on? I thought I saw a shot of her casually touching Gambit’s hand after they both got re-powered, but I might have been wrong. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingDragonFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c89c15/32.png) [@FlyingDragonFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingDragonFan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2004, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-secondary-mutations/276582/52 "2004-12-01T15:20:01Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > Although I haven’t read the X-Men other than Morrison’s run for years, I understand that there’s already been an issue where Bobby forms a new body for himself from Havok’s urine. As far as I can recall, this didn’t actually happen. That group of X-men (Extreme? Uncanny? Amazing? Anyway, Iceman, Angel, Havok, Wolverine, Husk, etc.) were all trapped in an alternate dimension where there apparently wasn’t any humidity, and prisoners of Satan/a demon/Nightcrawler’s father. Bobby’s body had been shattered and all that was left was his head, but he was still conscious. Arguing over a way to escape, Havok “threatened” Iceman by suggesting that he knew where he could get some water so that Iceman could re-form (wink wink), but a portal to our dimension was opened soon after and Iceman drew moisture through that. ---
**Author:** ![Lear\_s\_fool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/df788c/32.png) [@Lear\_s\_fool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lear_s_fool)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2004, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-secondary-mutations/276582/53 "2004-12-02T03:43:07Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Anyway—I know Rogue and Gambit have their powers back, but is her power-absorbing still permenantly stuck on? I thought I saw a shot of her casually touching Gambit’s hand after they both got re-powered, but I might have been wrong. At the time she was still depowered. It’s assumed Sage jump started her powers off camera so to speak. If you read the first issue of Rogue’s new book she defanity has no controll over her imprinting power still. While fight the Tom “evil ent” black she used her claws so it also assumed she still has the skrull DNA in effect [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marvels-secondary-mutations/276582.md?page=2)