# Marxism on the sdmb, How To Overthrow A Government **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 3, 2008, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872 "2008-11-03T15:59:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872/21 "2008-11-03T17:42:08Z")
The collective will of the SDMB, cubed, couldn’t overthrow a high school glee club, so I’m not sure what the OP’s on about. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872/22 "2008-11-03T17:48:11Z")
Wow! Where are you getting the kool-aid? A Marxist revolution? Really? In the larger scheme of things, the U.S. is currently pretty conservative and Barack Obama is a conservative centrist that is going to cut taxes for the majority of America… From [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_tax_plan#Taxation) (my bolding). [QUOTE=wikipedia] Under the Obama plan middle class families will see their taxes cut – and no family making less than $250,000 will see their taxes increase. Obama has proposed a tax plan which includes tax credits to lower the amount of taxes paid. The typical middle class family will receive well over $1,000 in tax relief under the Obama plan, and will make tax payments that are 20% lower than they faced under President Reagan. **According to the Tax Policy Center, the Obama plan provides three times as much tax relief for middle class families as the McCain plan.** [64] **Families making more than $250,000 will pay either the same or lower tax rates than they paid in the 1990s. For the wealthiest 2% of families, Obama will reverse a portion of the tax cuts they have received over the past eight years. But no family will pay higher tax rates than they would have paid in the 1990s. In fact, dividend rates would be 39 percent lower than what President Bush proposed in his 2001 tax cut.** [65] \*\*Obama’s plan will cut taxes overall, reducing revenues to below the levels that prevailed under Ronald Reagan (less than 18.2 percent of GDP). The Obama tax plan is a net tax cut \*\*– his tax relief for middle class families is larger than the revenue raised by his tax changes for families over $250,000. Coupled with his commitment to cut unnecessary spending, Obama will pay for this tax relief while bringing down the budget deficit.[66] [/QUOTE] Personally, it looks to me that the Democrats are becoming the party of fiscal responsibility and fiscal conservatism. The Republicans, while no fans of higher tax rates, seem to be the party of big government and debt. And if you really want to get into it, they also seem to be the party of government control of the media and spin. Hell, during the last eight years we had the White House paying a reporter a quarter million dollars to spin no child left behind ([cite](http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2005503260408)). We had the White House issuing press passes to a Republican activist using an assumed name to throw softballs during press conferences ([cite](http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/02/09/white.house.reporter/)). We had the government releasing prepackaged “news” stories that were essentially propaganda made to look like independent reporting ([cite](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/13/politics/13covert.html)). Say what you want about Clinton and the Democrats, but they didn’t pull this kind of shit, and I doubt that Obama will either. From where I sit, it looks more likely that the neo-cons and religious right were attempting a fascist takeover of America than the liberals are attempting a Marxist takeover. But I don’t believe either; I just think you have been brainwashed by a bunch of right-wing bloggers and have lost all contact with reality. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872/23 "2008-11-03T17:52:49Z")
Hell Elucidator, you must be sporting a gigantic boner right now–just from being considered consequential enough to be dangerous. It’s a very weird trope among the extreme right wing…that God’s annointed United States of America, the greatest country in the history of history, with our sacred constitution, our freedoms, our wealth, our spirit, our common sense and on and on–yet if our enemies give us the tiniest little shove, utter just a few blatant lies, tempt us with the tiniest mess of pottage–and the whole edifice comes tumbling down like a house of cards. Weird, I say. If America is so fragile that a few marxist Harvard law professors can bring us to our knees then we must never have amounted to much in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872/24 "2008-11-03T17:53:55Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > But if I can make you laugh, I’ve _already_ changed your mind. Oh, so you \*are \*a [Marxist](http://www.philanthromedia.org/archives/GrouchoMarx.jpg)!! ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872/25 "2008-11-03T17:54:15Z")
Wow. I’m impressed some of you got through all that mumbo-jumbo. I threw in the towel about half way through. About where he gets into high rant about **Der Trihs** is where my ridiculometer went off. i got a chuckle out of it though, so not a total waste. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872/26 "2008-11-03T18:00:09Z")
Watching the paranoid apoplexy of many on the right is both enjoyable and a little frightening on this election eve. ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872/27 "2008-11-03T18:04:58Z")
It must be true. It’s bold and in big letters. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872/28 "2008-11-03T18:05:40Z")
Damn, I loved that first thread - I was trying to get as many synonymns for cocaine and heroin in as I could. Left off “Columbian Marching Powder” though, my bad. Anyway, I’m not even American, so I couldn’t give a stuff about the Democratic Party. I like Obama well enough, but I’m so far to the left of all your parties I can’t see them from here. And I’m not a Marxist, I’m an Anarchist. Not the same thing at all. So, is this a parody thread or a meltdown? ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872/29 "2008-11-03T18:09:51Z")
Hey, I believe that the collective good of the people should be paramount in government decision-making. Schools? Paid for by all. Public TV? Good enough for my taxes! Art? The more controversial the better! Sex? One for all and all for one! Or two if you swing that way. I want my red “M”. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872/30 "2008-11-03T18:11:17Z")
Okay I’m new here, so maybe I’m missing the reason y’all are taking focusonz seriously. Isn’t it satire? I thought it was hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872/31 "2008-11-03T18:11:34Z")
…but I will be honest, I would rejoice at the downfall of both capitalism and American-style “democracy”, but only if they were replaced by something _better_. Which isn’t going to happen without a sea-change in humanity - as it is, those are the best we have. As long as they’re _properly applied_. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872/32 "2008-11-03T18:41:01Z")
This has to be a wosh, right?, tell me its a wosh, lie to me if you have to, so i can sleep at night… ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872/33 "2008-11-03T18:46:49Z")
> [@Syntropy](#): > > Okay I’m new here, so maybe I’m missing the reason y’all are taking focusonz seriously. Isn’t it satire? I thought it was hilarious. Actually, I am pretty sure **focusonz** is serious. Try doing a search of his posting history. Regardless, the rules of this forum are pretty clear; we need to take the OP seriously and debate it on its merits. Personally, I think this thread should be moved. I believe the OP is a rant and not really offered up as a debate. If we were in the pit, I am sure people would be a lot more forthcoming in their opinions (I know I would be). ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872/34 "2008-11-03T18:55:26Z")
I am going to say “wosh” instead of “whoosh” forever and ever now. Thank you for tickling my brain with your typo, Frodo. PS: DT is way too partisan to be a true revolutionary despite his intense (and often accurate) rhetoric. For some reason (I could be wrong here) he seems to think the evils of the world come from evil individuals within it, rather than that people being evil is the inevitable outcome the capitalistic system is designed to produce, one which is so deeply entwined with its nature that reform is impossible and revolution is the only answer. That make me a red commie bastard enough for ya, buddy? You’re in for such a big letdown if you go looking for anything but moderates here, and I do like to be helpful to newcomers. ---
**Author:** ![focusonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9dc877/32.png) [@focusonz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/focusonz)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872/35 "2008-11-03T19:00:43Z")
Marxism on the Internet Message boards, How to overthrow a Government. Yes it did happen here in the United States of America but you can stop it tomorrow. "Remember, I’m pulling for you. We’re all in this together! David Obama Issues His First Orders [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s) Obama Enlistees [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2yvCzqSEkc) It is the hate and rage that was fostered that concerns me the most. Obama’s thought police enrages Cadre of officers with hate > **[Why can't we all just get long... w/o hating?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=466580)** > > Something has been bothering me an awful lot in the modern world, and it’s something which ahs essentuially never changed since humans were around. It seems like groups of uhmans cannot disagree without imputing insanity, smallness of character,... > **[The Unfortunate Effect of the Negative Stereotype \[ed. title\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=467698)** > > I must be the oldest and wisest poster on the SDMB for me to see the dilemma of all political thread posters. I started this new thread because my point(s) seem to just get lost in all the noise in the political debates. The thread “Why can’t we all... [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/vdJB-qkfUHc/hqdefault.jpg "Jeremiah Wright - Obama's mentor - Hate speech") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdJB-qkfUHc) How Obama and the Chinese accomplished it on the Message boards with propaganda. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10395169#post10395169](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10395169#post10395169) Obama’s Chinese Connection > **[The Times & The Sunday Times](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/)** > > News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times China’s Preparation for War Sun Tzu has dozens of notable quotes, but the greatest may be, “For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.” [http://www.tribune-democrat.com/editorials/local\_story\_236133107.html](http://www.tribune-democrat.com/editorials/local_story_236133107.html) China invades Africa [http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/126/special-report-china-in-africa.htmlChinese](http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/126/special-report-china-in-africa.htmlChinese) Photo voltaic solar cells is subsidized by the federal, state, local, and utility companies. The subsidy amounts to $25,000 for a $35,000 5KW residential installation 98% of the Photo voltaic solar cells are made in china and the 2009 subsidies amount to $15 billion (est) And the kids are buying PV because they were brainwashed to hate the utility companies. PV is China’s last battle.in the US [http://solarfeeds.com/index.php?option=com\_content&view=article&id=4651:chinese-solar-power-companies-to-benefit-from-supply-outstripping--azocleantech&catid=52:52&Itemid=62](http://solarfeeds.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4651:chinese-solar-power-companies-to-benefit-from-supply-outstripping--azocleantech&catid=52:52&Itemid=62) The Chinese are sitting on 2 trillion US dollars. Make that 3 trillion US dollars counting the wall street bail out and PV subsidies. The Chinese can and have forced a crash of the American economy so to buy America cheap. The Trade deficit sapped American wealth. [http://api.ning.com/files/r5MC42QuOG3LwmuAcTDXBEYbfWeBhFIJs\*Ug3NIMyjSNmZ-bfA62bybhQXDaX8oxdz8cZssd-Xpwhr9kjoLfyJ6OeASSDPw\*/correlated\_save\_trdedeficit.gif?width=300](http://api.ning.com/files/r5MC42QuOG3LwmuAcTDXBEYbfWeBhFIJs*Ug3NIMyjSNmZ-bfA62bybhQXDaX8oxdz8cZssd-Xpwhr9kjoLfyJ6OeASSDPw*/correlated_save_trdedeficit.gif?width=300) [http://api.ning.com/files/r5MC42QuOG2h-4mCjUAyPkUmRp5o40heUe8FOSizImx9a-ZznyfzG7ScN5MQbQZaX73tUed1zWECGE2Yh3yMajat5ZcbaduQ/ageandsavings.gif?width=300](http://api.ning.com/files/r5MC42QuOG2h-4mCjUAyPkUmRp5o40heUe8FOSizImx9a-ZznyfzG7ScN5MQbQZaX73tUed1zWECGE2Yh3yMajat5ZcbaduQ/ageandsavings.gif?width=300) I’m through. I’m Done. You do the math!!! ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872/36 "2008-11-03T19:02:45Z")
> [@Ensign\_Edison](#): > > I am going to say “wosh” instead of “whoosh” forever and ever now. Thank you for tickling my brain with your typo, Frodo. Ouch :smack: Well at least something good came of it, perhaps it will become a new SDMB meme and i’ll forever inhabit the spheres reserved for the likes of Opal, Hal Briston, and OG… ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872/37 "2008-11-03T19:02:58Z")
> [@focusonz](#): > > I’m through. I’m Done. Promises, promises… ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872/38 "2008-11-03T19:03:40Z")
> [@focusonz](#): > > I’m through. I’m Done. You do the math!!! Um 1 + 1 = Crazy? ---
**Author:** ![UnwrittenNocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6de8d8/32.png) [@UnwrittenNocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwrittenNocturne)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872/39 "2008-11-03T19:04:04Z")
> [@focusonz](#): > > I’m Done. But you haven’t been properly forked yet. How can we be sure unless we check the other side? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872/40 "2008-11-03T19:05:03Z")
> [@focusonz](#): > > You do the math!!! internet connection + mental illness = endless entertainment [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxism-on-the-sdmb-how-to-overthrow-a-government/470872.md?page=3)