# marxist criticism **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 6, 2003, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxist-criticism/205890 "2003-10-06T17:31:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![constantine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@constantine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constantine)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxist-criticism/205890/21 "2003-10-08T01:33:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Olentzero \* > \*\*You wanna back those assertions up with cites, please? \*\* [On-line dictionary definition of “false consciousness”](http://www.bartleby.com/61/40/F0024050.html) > [@](#): > > In Marxist theory, a failure to recognize the instruments of one’s oppression or exploitation as one’s own creation, as when members of an oppressed class unwittingly adopt views of the oppressor class. ---
**Author:** ![constantine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@constantine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constantine)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxist-criticism/205890/22 "2003-10-08T01:33:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Olentzero \* > \*\*You wanna back those assertions up with cites, please? \*\* [On-line dictionary definition of “false consciousness”](http://www.bartleby.com/61/40/F0024050.html) > [@](#): > > In Marxist theory, a failure to recognize the instruments of one’s oppression or exploitation as one’s own creation, as when members of an oppressed class unwittingly adopt views of the oppressor class. ---
**Author:** ![constantine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@constantine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constantine)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxist-criticism/205890/23 "2003-10-08T01:53:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Olentzero \* > \*\*You wanna back those assertions up with cites, please? \*\* [On-line dictionary definition of “false consciousness”](http://www.bartleby.com/61/40/F0024050.html) > [@](#): > > In Marxist theory, a failure to recognize the instruments of one’s oppression or exploitation as one’s own creation, as when members of an oppressed class unwittingly adopt views of the oppressor class. [Entry for “false consciousness from an on-line encyclopedia”](http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/false-consciousness) > [@](#): > > “False consciousness” is the Marxist concept that the proletariat are misguided as to their own desires and wants, and will not properly understand their true beliefs and desires until they are enlightened. More specifically, it is the belief that within the structures of Capitalism, there is a disconnect between the real state of affairs and the way they phenomenally appear. (For instance in the wage contract.) Friedrich Engels wrote in 1893 that > ‘Ideology is a process accomplished by the so-called thinker. Consciously, it is true, but with a false consciousness. The real motive forces impelling him remain unknown to him; otherwise it simply would not be an ideological process. Hence he imagines false or seeming motive forces’. > > There is no proof that Karl Marx either did or did not use the phrase “false consciousness”. It appears to have been used (in print) only by > > Friedrich Engels however, see Terry Eagleton, Ideology: An Introduction (London: Verso, 1991), p. 89. > > The doctrine of false consciousness has also been used by Marxist feminists in regard to other women. > > \*\*Objections to the concept of “false consciousness” > Many people believe that the concept of “false consciousness” is a tool for masking oppression in the guise of liberation. > The political concept of false consciousness allows its user to justify their actions towards others as in their best interests, no matter what their own opinions may be in the matter. Their protestations to the contrary are taken by the believer in false consciousness to demonstrate how completely misguided their opinions are, and hence how necessary it is that they be should be changed, by force if necessary. > \*\* (emphasis added) [Letter from Friedrich Engels cited above](http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1893/letters/93_07_14.htm) > [@](#): > > “Ideology is a process accomplished by the so-called thinker consciously, indeed, but with a **false consciousness**. The real motives impelling him **remain unknown to him** , otherwise it would not be an ideological process at all. Hence he imagines false or apparent motives.” ---
**Author:** ![KenGr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecc23a/32.png) [@KenGr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KenGr)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxist-criticism/205890/24 "2003-10-08T03:43:59Z")
This is all fascinating, but is it really the only answer. When I hear the term “Marxist Criticism” I think of one of the “re-education” techniques used in most Communist regimes. In theory, a comrade is taken in front of his peers and questioned as to whether he has been upholding the principles of the party and, in this way, gains insight into how he can better support the revolution etc. In practice, I think it meant they took the guy into a room and beat the crap out of him until he confessed his shortcomings and promised to do better. (I think a few religions have had similar methods.) ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2003, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxist-criticism/205890/25 "2003-10-08T11:12:03Z")
OK, **constantine** , something to work with. Albeit some very strange stuff. “Failure to recognize the instruments of oppression and exploitation as one’s own creation”?? How, exactly, are the long hours and low wages at a place like McDonald’s the creation of someone whose first day on the job is today? And here’s another little feature that should set your alarm bells off: the phrase “many people believe”. Paragraphs beginning with those three words don’t usually make for very strong cites. “Many people believe” Saddam Hussein had something to do with September 11th, yet Bush himself admitted in July he had no evidence to back that up. “Many people believe” the theory of false consciousness is just another mask for oppression, but that isn’t enough evidence to confirm it as truth. That leaves us Engels’ definition of false consciousness. All it says here, basically, is that false consciousness is a phenomenon whereby an individual’s actions and decisions in the world are based on an imperfect understanding of it. Nowhere does he say that false consciousness is an act of willful ignorance, nor that marxists alone have the ability to break through that false consciousness. Engels is merely stating a socially-conditioned fact - one he and Marx carefully examined, not just something they claimed “many people believe”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/marxist-criticism/205890.md?page=1)