# Mary Jane or Gwen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 15, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-jane-or-gwen/155310 "2003-02-15T21:38:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-jane-or-gwen/155310/1 "2003-02-15T21:38:19Z")
Well? ---
**Author:** ![Fibber\_McGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a6a055/32.png) [@Fibber\_McGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fibber_McGee)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-jane-or-gwen/155310/2 "2003-02-15T21:46:57Z")
Personally I’ve always been partial to Gwen and I especially enjoyed her portrayal in Marvels. I also wish Gwen had appeared in the Spider-Man movie, but that’s more to do with the continuity geek in me than with character preference. ---
**Author:** ![Murcielago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Murcielago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Murcielago)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-jane-or-gwen/155310/3 "2003-02-15T21:55:44Z")
No brainer. Gwen is hot, plus Captain Stacy probably left her with some decent scratch. Mary Jane is an annoying, trendy, wannabe actress/model. Very high maintainance. She is also a redhead, all redheads are psychos ;). ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-jane-or-gwen/155310/4 "2003-02-15T22:44:37Z")
MJ all the way! I mean, MJ was a Go-Go Dancer for christsake! :: leers :: She was fun loving, independant, smart, her sense of self didn’t depend on Peter (or anyone else), etc. Gwen on the other hand… I think the memory of Gwen is far better than the reality of her. She’s portrayed as being lighthearted, fun loving and sensitive when she’s seen in flashbacks, but I recently reread Spider-Man 1-122 in a lump and boy was Gwen _blah_. She had no personality and three moods:[ul] [li]Bitchy and castrating: “Peter, even though you’re a news photographer, and you have to run off to take pictures when there’s action, you must be…A COWARD! Begone from my sight! \< sneer \>”[/li][li]Droopy and weepy: “Oh Peter, even though I said[/li]never to call me again, I miss you terribly \!” [li]Bouncy and lobotomized “O Peter! I’m soooo happy that we’re together. It’s just nummy that we wuv each other so much” [/li][/ul] Granted, when she was “up”, she was kinda fun, but that was maybe a quarter of her appearances. Most of the time she was horrible, and horrible to Peter, despite how wonderfully she’s portrayed in flashback appearances. Blech. It’s also interesting how _much_ she changed once Ditko left the book. Ditko was/is a huge Ayn Rand fan and his Gwen was what I’ve always pictured Dagney Taggart as being (and looking like) smart, coldly logical, passionate at times, challanging…complex. When Ditko left, Gwen became the dreary sniveller she was. I don’t mean to be snotty, and I hope this doesn’t come across as such but I’m curious: all you pro-Gwen folks: could you tell me if you know Gwen through her actual appearances (reprints of those appearances are fine) or just through flashbacks? Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-jane-or-gwen/155310/5 "2003-02-15T23:53:05Z")
I’m more of a Betty Brant man. ---
**Author:** ![TGWATY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@TGWATY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TGWATY)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-jane-or-gwen/155310/6 "2003-02-16T00:18:54Z")
Refresh my memory. Is Gwen the Black Cat? Or is she the one that got killed by the Goblin? I second the Betty Brant motion. Didn’t she hook up with Flash Thompson or did I dream that? ---
**Author:** ![Fibber\_McGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a6a055/32.png) [@Fibber\_McGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fibber_McGee)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-jane-or-gwen/155310/7 "2003-02-16T00:22:03Z")
Gwen got offed by GG. Black Cat’s real name is Felicia Hardy. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-jane-or-gwen/155310/8 "2003-02-16T00:45:04Z")
I was a big fan of The Black Cat. She may have been slightly psycho, and not really very good for the poor boy, but she was very understanding about Peter’s crimefighting habit. Not a lot of women do, including Mary Jane. ---
**Author:** ![Pollo\_Boyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a4c791/32.png) [@Pollo\_Boyo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pollo_Boyo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-jane-or-gwen/155310/9 "2003-02-16T00:47:15Z")
Is this limited to the Original titles or can we throw Ultimate Spidey in there to? Cuz let’s face it, both are well done in that book. MJ is the sweet-hearted girl next door who truly cares for Peter. Gwen is the take-no-crap nose-ring wearing gal who threatens Peter’s bullies. On one hand, we have MJ. On the other, Gwen. So… (rubs hands together)… WAIT! I’ve got it! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Fibber\_McGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a6a055/32.png) [@Fibber\_McGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fibber_McGee)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-jane-or-gwen/155310/10 "2003-02-16T00:48:58Z")
Well yeah, but the reason Black Cat was so understanding was because she herself wore a costume. And she had no interest in Peter Parker, only Spider-Man, so it was the same situation only reversed. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-jane-or-gwen/155310/11 "2003-02-16T01:04:58Z")
MJ!!! ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-jane-or-gwen/155310/12 "2003-02-16T01:21:56Z")
Maybe you had to be there to remember how thoroughly obnoxious MJ was when they introduced her. She was the forerunner to all modern teen movie queens, a brainless body who wants to have fun. I couldn’t imagine Peter Parker spending more than five minutes with her. Gwen was far more interesting and adult a character. Possibly that’s why Gerry Conway had to get rid of her. She was out of his league as a writer. But nobody should ever forgive him for doing so. Spiderman was never, never, the same after that. The heart was gone. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-jane-or-gwen/155310/13 "2003-02-16T02:18:23Z")
Gwendolyn! ---
**Author:** ![Kaspar\_Hauser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@Kaspar\_Hauser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaspar_Hauser)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-jane-or-gwen/155310/14 "2003-02-16T03:21:24Z")
Aunt May! ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-jane-or-gwen/155310/15 "2003-02-16T04:51:31Z")
I’ll take Peter! How ironic. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2003, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-jane-or-gwen/155310/16 "2003-02-16T05:32:08Z")
Black Cat. At least she wouldn’t whine about Peter not being there. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2003, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-jane-or-gwen/155310/17 "2003-02-18T17:07:39Z")
Liz Allen!