# Mary Kay and Vili, May 20, 2005 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 21, 2005, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829 "2005-05-21T01:00:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829/21 "2005-05-21T19:04:50Z")
Ann Rule states in her web blog that Mary Kay & Vili sold the rights to film their wedding for $800,000. So they’re not hurting for money. Ann Rule knew Ted Bundy while he was the secret serial killer of dozens of young women. Mary Kay & Vili are living down the road from her house. Convenient if they ever need a true crime writer. ---
**Author:** ![stargazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@stargazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stargazer)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829/22 "2005-05-21T19:08:26Z")
I notice on their registry that most of their guests have opted to get them something _other_ than bedding. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829/23 "2005-05-21T20:46:08Z")
> [@stargazer](#): > > I notice on their registry that most of their guests have opted to get them something _other_ than bedding. Yeah, they already have a car. ---
**Author:** ![Stark\_Raven\_Mad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Stark\_Raven\_Mad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stark_Raven_Mad)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829/24 "2005-05-21T21:13:56Z")
A little off-topic here, but what exactly is that wedding registry thing? You list items you _want_ people to buy for your wedding? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829/25 "2005-05-21T21:15:02Z")
> [@Stark Raven Mad](#): > > A little off-topic here, but what exactly is that wedding registry thing? You list items you _want_ people to buy for your wedding? It’s just that. If people want to buy you a gift, they don’t have to sit around scratching their heads. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829/26 "2005-05-21T21:37:03Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > Yeah, they already have a car. [Really Obscure Reference] I wonder if they named one of their daughters Concord? [/ROR] ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829/27 "2005-05-21T21:56:02Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I can’t consider it willing when the boy was only 13. If this had been a 38-year-old male teacher and a 13-year-old female student, would you still call it statutory rape? Having been a former 13 year old boy, I can assure you he was probably willing. With their genders reversed, I wouldn’t be nearly as quick to call it statutory rape because I think there’s an inherently different dynamic at play when there’s an older male authority figure and more risks for the girl to endure adolescent pregnancy. But if the girl was now 22, somehow bore him two kids and he served time and they still got married, I’d have to rethink the beginnings of that relationship as being much more willing on the girl’s part than I’d previously want to admit. Some girls _are_ like that. ---
**Author:** ![pessimisticgrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@pessimisticgrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pessimisticgrace)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829/28 "2005-05-21T22:10:47Z")
I don’t think it’s romantic, but I abhor the tendency to lump all sex offenders together. She was out of line and I think she rightfully went to jail, but I think it’s erroneous to lump her in there with men who grab girls off streets and rape them in alleys. Maybe he didn’t have the capacity to consent, but a willing-but-not-cognitively-capable boy having sex with an older woman strikes me as a LOT less upsetting than an 8 year old girl being dragged into bushes and raped. It’s not cool, but it’s not on the same level. As for his ability to consent… I start to wonder at about 14 because I remember when _I_ was 14 and I actively pursued, and dated, an older woman. 10 years later I don’t look back at it with regret or think I was impressonable. I think it depends entirely on the individual. That said, the adult is breaking a law and should go to jail. But I think people overestimate the trauma this kid suffered, solely because of his age. I think the fact that, with limited contact, he married her after several years had passed reinforces the argument that he was aware of his actions. It doesn’t make what she did okay, but she served her time and he’s an adult, so I don’t really care what they do now. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829/29 "2005-05-21T22:18:18Z")
Yeah, but you really gotta wonder why a woman in her thirties would be attracted to a thirteen year old boy. I was thirteen, and I remember what the boys were like. For the most part, I wasn’t attracted to them at the time, with maybe a few exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829/30 "2005-05-21T22:27:15Z")
> [@pessimisticgrace](#): > > I think the fact that, with limited contact, he married her after several years had passed reinforces the argument that he was aware of his actions. It doesn’t make what she did okay, but she served her time and he’s an adult, so I don’t really care what they do now. In a way, what choice do either of them have? Any guy who gets involved with her, is going to be wondering if she’s going to be leaving him for a younger man, and since Villi’s been all over the tabloids almost since this thing started, it strikes me that he’d have a hard time getting a date with anyone his age (_older_ women, however, might be a different story). ---
**Author:** ![La\_Llorona](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@La\_Llorona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/La_Llorona)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829/31 "2005-05-22T00:54:58Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Having been a former 13 year old boy, I can assure you he was probably willing. With their genders reversed, I wouldn’t be nearly as quick to call it statutory rape But, legally speaking, it _is_ statutory rape regardless of the genders of the people concerned. Probably it’s at least a bit better psychologically to be willing than to be forced/coerced/drugged into it, but at that age, one cannot legally consent to sex whether one is willing or not. The– Ah, what am I saying. This is MPSIMS, not GD, so I’ll stop right here. Congratulations on your wedding, MK and V, and I do heartily hope that Mary Kay finds all the happiness she deserves. [/pointedly ambiguous] ---
**Author:** ![sj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@sj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sj2)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829/32 "2005-05-22T01:20:39Z")
At the fabulous Hollywood Tavern. It was a media circus. We saw the limos arrive and such. A lot of people were trying to peek over the bushes, even some of my fellow regulars crossed the road to get a peek. Some of the reporters came over to interview us to see if we were at the bar to catch a glimpse at the couple. :dubious: They ended up taking staged pictures of my brother and I standing outside and pointing at the winery. Jackasses. I think it is sick. She is mentally ill. And how does she get visitation rights with her former hubby’s kids? Strange. ---
**Author:** ![Stark\_Raven\_Mad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Stark\_Raven\_Mad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stark_Raven_Mad)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829/33 "2005-05-22T01:33:45Z")
He looked pretty much the [same](http://www.4law.co.il/mary1.files/image018.jpg) at age 13 as he does now (top right hand corner of the picture). My Googling for Vili’s full name found me a French epinions type [site](http://www.ciao.fr/Un_seul_crime_l_amour_Mary_Kay_Letourneau_Vili_Fualaau__125100) that sells a documentary of the Vili-Mary Kay fiasco entitled, “The Only Crime, Love”. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829/34 "2005-05-22T05:01:21Z")
Does she even have a job? I say that when the money runs out, so does the love. ---
**Author:** ![zoogirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b9bd4f/32.png) [@zoogirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoogirl)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829/35 "2005-05-22T06:06:23Z")
> [@sj2](#): > > And how does she get visitation rights with her former hubby’s kids? Strange. Uh, 'cause they’re her kids too? I’ve never heard any allegaton that she abused her own children, other than the stress they went through. Granted, that was bad enough, but competely losing their mother would be worse, imho. ---
**Author:** ![pessimisticgrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@pessimisticgrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pessimisticgrace)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829/36 "2005-05-22T06:25:00Z")
\< And how does she get visitation rights with her former hubby’s kids? Strange.\> Pleeeeease don’t tell me you’re of the mindset that if she slept with an eager 13 year old boy, she’s likely to rape her daughters. That argument just boggles me. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829/37 "2005-05-22T12:02:51Z")
> [@pessimisticgrace](#): > > Pleeeeease don’t tell me you’re of the mindset that if she slept with an eager 13 year old boy, she’s likely to rape her daughters. That argument just boggles me. I think the issue may be that some would question her competence as a mother. I personally think she has serious problems, but not so much that she shouldn’t be allowed to see her own children. She does have a lot to explain to them, though. ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829/38 "2005-05-22T12:42:42Z")
But what does Ashley have to say about all of this? What? Oh, Mary _Kay_. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![pessimisticgrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@pessimisticgrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pessimisticgrace)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829/39 "2005-05-22T14:45:24Z")
You know, I actually thought it said “Mary Kate and Vili” when I first clicked on it. I wondered how THAT relationship happened. As for her competence, I can understand that. I don’t think it should preclude her from seeing her children, though, and as far as I know she doesn’t have custody. I heard they made her say this ridiculous “Mommy’s a child molester and you can’t live with me because I might hurt you” thing. C’mon. The leap from eager 13 year old boy to young female DAUGHTERS? But maybe I heard an overexaggarated account of what she had to tell them. That would be extreme overkill, she doesn’t fit the criteria for pedophilia. And before someone yells at me for trivializing her crime, my argument is not that she didn’t do something wrong. She did. But she served her time as far as I’m concerned, and he’s more than legal, so if they want to get hitched, who cares? ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829/40 "2005-05-22T17:15:46Z")
I’m sorry, but I don’t see where, other than the application of force, the law has any place in sexual decisions. As far as I’m concerned, statutory rape is exactly that - rape by virtue of its violating a statute. And a statute that, as far as I’m concerned, shouldn’t exist. Anyone who is post-pubescent, as far as I’m concerned, should be legally able to make his or her own sexual decisions. He or she is going to anyway. And while I may find the taste and judgment of someone in his or her thirties finding a teenager sufficiently attractive to want to have sex with them rather distasteful personally, I hardly think it qualifies as “sick.” Prepubescent, yeah. There’s something pretty bent about that. But once puberty has been achieved, that body is \*physically \* ready. And let’s face it - a lot of people make their sexual decisions based on the body. There is a LOT of difference between older woman/young boy and older man/young girl, for the simple reason that a young girl can, as long as she is nubile, get pregnant. The potential consequences for her are huge, and the risk is quite high - much for than for the transmission of STD, which is the other big risk. Psychologically, some people are ready for sex in their early teens, some aren’t. But remember, people used to marry in their fairly early teens, and it wasn’t particularly unusual for a young teenaged girl to wed a widower in his forties or fifties. Some people may not have liked the idea even then - it was assumed that the girl would prefer someone closer to her own age - but it wasn’t considered rape or anything like it. The idea that there is something psychologically warped and inherently wrong with such a relationship is a fairly recent one. This is the first I’ve heard anything about this story, so I don’t know any of the details. But I will say that if this guy waited for seven years on the outside, during which he had plenty of time to experience other people, he probably has good reason to believe that this is the woman he wants. In any case, he’s presumably a competent adult, so I’d recommend getting over it. For anyone who is wondering: a) I am a woman b) I am 49 c) I have not had a relationship with a teenager since I WAS a teenager and d) I have no interest in having a relationship with a teenager. In other words, my opinion is based entirely on my opinion of what is right and wrong, not on any personal interest in the issue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-kay-and-vili-may-20-2005/304829.md?page=3)