# Mary Sue characters

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-sue-characters/479642>\
**Category:** Cafe Society\
**Created:** [January 2, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-sue-characters/479642 "2009-01-02T23:16:55Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 4\
**Page:** 12

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**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\
**Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-sue-characters/479642/222 "2012-04-12T00:54:46Z")

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> [@WormTheRed](#):
>
> What about Bran in Wheel of Time?
> 
> He’s pretty much perfect, and he even gets to “marry” three of the main women?

you mean Rand. Bran is from another series… and is not marrying anyone yet, though the way that series goes, who knows? 🙂

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**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\
**Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-sue-characters/479642/223 "2012-04-12T00:56:04Z")

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> [@Bosstone](#):
>
> the plot rolls over and shows its belly for them.

At least in the cases of Susan and Granny…_wouldn’t YOU_?!

**Gonzoron** : Didn’t he same-sex marry a tree-zombie?

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**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\
**Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-sue-characters/479642/224 "2012-04-12T01:10:30Z")

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> [@Bosstone](#):
>
> Snuff can pretty much be summed up as “Vimes’s life is now completely awesome and everything goes right.” It’s pretty overkill, yes, though since it’s probably the last Vimes book Pratchett will ever write (:() I consider it the Happy Ending closure and give it some leeway.
> 
> The Discworld has a few “perfect” characters, come to think of it. Vimes (post-Jingo), Carrot, Susan Sto Helit, Granny Weatherwax, _arguably_ Rincewind (being an Anti-Sue), maybe some others. They can’t do any wrong (no matter how hard Rincewind tries), their enemies are effortlessly swept aside, and the plot rolls over and shows its belly for them.

The others all either have definite character flaws (Granny Weatherwax is genuinely mean to people quite often, for example. Very few people like her) or are intended to be over-the-top (Carrot). But Vimes…

Is proclaimed “the King of the River”, has a cocktail named after him that then becomes the most popular ever, has the pub named after him, and has everyone, absolutely everyone, love him. And those are just the most obvious examples of Gary Stuism.

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**Author:** ![Civil\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Civil\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Guy)\
**Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mary-sue-characters/479642/225 "2012-04-12T03:57:00Z")

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…It seems to me, though, that there can be a difficult distinction between the Hero, found in a Whole Lot of literature, and over-the-top Mary Sue / Marty Stu types. I think the Hero is often a Mary Sue / Marty Stu character who’s loved by everyone, even the reader / audience. The Hero is beloved so much that all (even most of the critics) overlook the complete insufferability of the Hero’s perfect competence and completely unwarranted humility.

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