# Masked Vigilantism. Is it morally eithical? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 28, 2005, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955 "2005-08-28T06:18:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kyle\_Rayner1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58f4c7/32.png) [@Kyle\_Rayner1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyle_Rayner1)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955/41 "2005-08-30T05:14:58Z")
**Marley23** I can understand why that would put someone at ease but I would feel safer with someone who doesn’t kill than with someone who would use lethal force. ---
**Author:** ![Kyle\_Rayner1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58f4c7/32.png) [@Kyle\_Rayner1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyle_Rayner1)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955/42 "2005-08-30T05:17:24Z")
I meant why that would make someone uncomfortable. I don’t know why the hell I put “at ease.” :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Leviosaurus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Leviosaurus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leviosaurus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955/43 "2005-08-30T05:37:20Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Disagree immensely that a real life Batman would necessarily be destined to become a mentally ill sociopath like Rorschach. Riiiiiight. If he wanted to fight crime, he could become a cop, he could join the FBI, he could start a neighborhood watch… given the tremendous number of choices available, he decides instead to dress up in spandex, hide his face and beat up random meth-strung out kids who he deems to be wrongdoers. I think your hypothetical vigilante has already proved himself a mentally ill sociopath the minute he donned his tights. But then again you mentioned Batman… and as we know from _Batman Begins_, Batman is essentially a ninja. As everyone knows, [ninjas are different](http://www.realultimatepower.net/). ---
**Author:** ![Kyle\_Rayner1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58f4c7/32.png) [@Kyle\_Rayner1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyle_Rayner1)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955/44 "2005-08-30T05:42:47Z")
A Batman-like vigilante wouldn’t beat up kids high on meth he would go after the adult dealers who manipulated the kids to get on meth. My ideal Batman wouldn’t even go after drug dealers because I don’t believe in the war on drugs but whatever. I can also understand why he wouldn’t want to become a cop or FBI agent because of wide spread corruption in both fields. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955/45 "2005-08-30T05:43:49Z")
> [@Kyle Rayner1](#): > > I can also understand why he wouldn’t want to become a cop or FBI agent because of wide spread corruption in both fields. I know there are crooked cops, and in all likelihood crooked feds, but when you start saying things like this I wonder if you’re thinking of the real world on a comic book world. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955/46 "2005-08-30T05:52:43Z")
> [@Leviosaurus](#): > > I think your hypothetical vigilante has already proved himself a mentally ill sociopath the minute he donned his tights. See, I’d be worried if he wore no clothes at all. “I"m NAKEDMAN!” ---
**Author:** ![Kyle\_Rayner1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58f4c7/32.png) [@Kyle\_Rayner1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyle_Rayner1)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955/47 "2005-08-30T05:56:20Z")
I can understand why most vigilantes wouldn’t work because of mental health issues but a guy with Batman’s moral compass, why not. I’m not thinking of a comic book world, I know in all likelyhood he would make a lot of mistakes but at least he would be non-lethal. I would give such person a chance because I mean, hell, no one has tried it before at least not with Batman’s moraility. So who knows what could happen. ---
**Author:** ![AmbushBug](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ambushbug/32/4600_2.png) [@AmbushBug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmbushBug)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955/48 "2005-08-30T06:58:53Z")
[Here](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/3112670.stm) is a story about a real-life masked vigilante, apparently operating recently in London and Kent, England. I vote that this one’s morally ethical, being that he fights directly against what many believe is a practice of questionable ethics. I think it’s kind of neat that a victim “in distress” can just leave him a message on his answering machine and he’ll show up in costume and take care of things. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955/49 "2005-08-30T07:06:33Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Wow. I really don’t think so. Any increase in the perception that your _neighbors,_ not just the professional police, will fight crime has got to be a deterrent. The problem is that the criminals are your neighbours too. **Kyle Rayner1** keeps talking about how someone with Batman’s moral compass would be OK; the question is how do we know that? We don’t, until he beats up someone he shouldn’t have. In the meantime, everyone is suddenly at more risk than before. If anything, criminals would be more heavily armed, travel in bigger groups and generally be more violent and dangerous, precisely because now they have to defend themselves against Batman too. Unfortunately, crime isn’t simple. Crime doesn’t happen because some well-adjusted middle-aged stockbroker wakes up one day and decides to become a mugger instead, and it won’t stop happening because there’s a Batman out there, no matter how moral he is. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955/50 "2005-08-30T07:15:04Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > If anything, criminals would be more heavily armed, travel in bigger groups and generally be more violent and dangerous, precisely because now they have to defend themselves against Batman too. A problem that _Batman Begins_ briefly acknowledges in its final moments. ---
**Author:** ![Kyle\_Rayner1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58f4c7/32.png) [@Kyle\_Rayner1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyle_Rayner1)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955/51 "2005-08-31T05:05:26Z")
Well, about criminals hunting in bigger groups and being more dangerous that’s a good point but Batman would probably recruit people to his side too. I know about the problem with copycats but how about people trained by Batman and being taught Batman’s moral compass. Besides, don’t just blame Batman in more dangerous criminals I think the cops should take responsibilty even more so than Batman. Batman’s appearance should be a sign for the cops to improve themselves and improve their methods if the crime rate goes up blame the cops not Batman. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955/52 "2005-08-31T06:48:37Z")
If Batman appears and crime rates _then_ go up (not that I’m necessarily saying they would), how could we realistically blame the police instead of Batman for that? ---
**Author:** ![Kyle\_Rayner1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58f4c7/32.png) [@Kyle\_Rayner1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyle_Rayner1)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955/53 "2005-08-31T06:51:37Z")
It’s still the police’s job to enfore the law, Batman like another poster noted is more like a concerned citizen. Don’t the police still have a responsibilty whether Batman is there or not to stop the city from turning into a hell hole? ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955/54 "2005-08-31T06:55:34Z")
So if I cause the crime rates to go up, by whatever means, that’s the fault of the police force? I have no responsibility? ---
**Author:** ![Kyle\_Rayner1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58f4c7/32.png) [@Kyle\_Rayner1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyle_Rayner1)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955/55 "2005-08-31T07:00:06Z")
Well, it’s their job to enforce the law so yeah it would be their fault. The ideal Batman would probably operate in a poorer city where the police aren’t effective at their jobs and any interference would be welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Kyle\_Rayner1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58f4c7/32.png) [@Kyle\_Rayner1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyle_Rayner1)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955/56 "2005-08-31T07:08:25Z")
Hold on, that wasn’t a satisfactory answer, yes you would take part of the blame, of course. I don’t see how it would hurt though I mean isn’t the presence of a Batman already needed because of the failure of the police to do their jobs? ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955/57 "2005-08-31T07:57:10Z")
> [@Kyle Rayner1](#): > > I don’t see how it would hurt though I mean isn’t the presence of a Batman already needed because of the failure of the police to do their jobs? We don’t even agree whether the presence of a Batman is needed, let alone on the reasons for that. If someone commits a crime, they committed a crime. It’s not the fault of the police. If there are so many people who are willing to become masked vigilantes, why not start a neighbourhood watch program instead? Why not get them to cooperate with the police instead of working at odds with them? Why give an overworked police force even more work instead of more resources? ---
**Author:** ![Kyle\_Rayner1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58f4c7/32.png) [@Kyle\_Rayner1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyle_Rayner1)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955/58 "2005-08-31T08:08:25Z")
How about in a city or town with widepsread corruption in the police force? Where the poor (mostly minorites) are discriminated against? Wouldn’t you understand if Batman wanted nothing to do with the polce force and by being at odds with them he would be doing the right thing? Just because someone is employed by the government it doesn’t make them always morally right. I’m not trying to insult your intelligence since you probably know that already I just want to stress my point on how governments can be corrupt. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955/59 "2005-08-31T08:35:27Z")
It seems to me that you are so desperate to get the idea of a real-life Batman to work that you will invent whatever world is necessary to justify him. Fine, I’ll concede that there are theoretical circumstances where I’d support a Batman. I just don’t agree that those circumstances exist. I believe I’ve already explained why. ---
**Author:** ![Kyle\_Rayner1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58f4c7/32.png) [@Kyle\_Rayner1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyle_Rayner1)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2005, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955/60 "2005-08-31T08:40:17Z")
Fair enough. I agree in most circumstances a real life Batman would not be a good idea but there are some poor cities in which he could improve things. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/masked-vigilantism-is-it-morally-eithical/318955.md?page=2)