# Mass Casualty Shooting at a nightclub in Orlando. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 12, 2016, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178 "2016-06-12T09:56:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/241 "2016-06-13T14:59:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Come to think of it, why is it that women never seem to do this sort of thing? First, if they never seem to do this sort of thing, and treating “this sort of thing” as “mass or terrorist attacks” without limiting it to mass shootings, it’s lack of information. There have been female terrorists both of the gun(wo)man and suicide bomber varieties. It seems to be less common, though. Some thoughts: On one hand, it may be another one of those aspects in which men are more likely to be found at the extremes. On the other, one of the concepts that many extremist ideologies have in common is the ideal of women as subservient. “Subservient” doesn’t really match “carrying a gun”. The more an ideology or culture calls for equality between the sexes, the more likely it is to have women willing and able to fight for it. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/242 "2016-06-13T15:04:29Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > \*Radical \*Islamic extremist. Why can’t you say those words? Radical Islamic extremist _jihadist_! Why can’t you liberals admit what he really was? ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/243 "2016-06-13T15:05:03Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > **panache45** and **Una** , that I know of. Makes two ( **Foggy** hadn’t written at the time of the post I quoted). > > Condolences from the other side of the pond; I’m glad **Iggy** ’s nephew is OK and that the other asshole in California got caught beforehand. Thank you for the correction. I had somehow missed **Una** in all this. Mea culpa. And now I’m unsubscribing from this thread. It doesn’t appear people can follow mod instructions for all of two seconds. My heart is still with all that have been lost and their loved ones. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/244 "2016-06-13T15:16:46Z")
**Iggy** I can’t imagine what those feelings may be like right now. Many Puerto Rican victims both fatal and nonfatal. So far not yet any known around my circle (knock on drywall) but it has rattled people quite a bit. Yesterday was NYCs Puerto Rican Day Parade which happened to be dedicated to the community’s LGBT activists among others, so that itself raised anxiety. Here’s wishing the wounded may recover and the tally not keep increasing. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/245 "2016-06-13T15:21:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > According to the CNN timeline, there were actually three armed officers present already(one inside th club), and they exchanged fire with the gunman: > > An officer working extra duty in full uniform at the club responds. > He and two officers nearby open fire on the shooter, and a gun battle ensues. > > [http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-shooting-as-it-happened/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/orlando-shooting-as-it-happened/index.html) > > Then it says “a hostage situation developed”. Does that mean the shooting stopped for three hours? So three good guys with guns didn’t manage to stop one bad guy with guns? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/246 "2016-06-13T15:27:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Strange, when Martin Luther King was shot, we didn’t hear much about guns killing people. We heard about hate killing people. You remember that personally, do ya? :dubious: > [@adaher](#): > > hat’s what happened here. These people were targeted for no other reason than that they offended this guy’s religious sensibilities by their very existence. This wasn’t a bullied kid looking for revenge, or some disgruntled worker, or someone mad about his girlfriend and other people just got in the way. This was a terrorist attack, which is not merely a “mass shooting” anymore than an assassination is just another murder. You know this for a fact? You can offer cites showing Mateen’s intent and state of mind? :dubious: ETA: I just saw **ITD** ’s admonishment above and in case this particular line of discussion is out of bounds, I’m done here. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/247 "2016-06-13T15:29:39Z")
The terminology only matters to people trying to pretend their hate is different than their hate. That what they preach is different than what they preach. That they are not responsible, that they are different, that the killers are “others”. The only words that matter are “religious” and “conservative”, it is the same exact hate. That different parts of the world have different variations of the same hate is inconsequential, that some forms of hate have more power and influence in certain regions of the world is to. We won’t use the words you want us to use to isolate yourself from the same hate you preach because you are them and they are you. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/248 "2016-06-13T15:39:39Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > As a matter of fact, I think we’ve only had one gay poster chime in and that wasn’t with accusations, but with praise for the police and how they handled the matter. If our LGBT brethren aren’t decrying the hatred-du-jour out of fear (as would they have every right to), why is everyone else? Good quote here: > [@Dan Savage](#): > > Stonewall 1969: cops rush into gay bar to arrest patrons. > > Pulse 2016: cops rush into gay bar to save patrons. Progress is being made. I’ve seen nothing (yet) to suggest that the police acted in any way other than professional in this instance, and (although I am not gay) I salute them for this. I can’t imagine what it must have been like going into that club afterwards, let alone being in there during the attack. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/249 "2016-06-13T16:39:35Z")
**On what planet did you think these were appropriate comments given my previous instructions?** **ENOUGH** of the political, religious, and gun related comments. > [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Radical Islamic extremist _jihadist_! Why can’t you liberals admit what he really was? > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > \*Radical \*Islamic extremist. Why can’t you say those words? > [@gytalf2000](#): > > Did he even mention that the shooter was an Islamic extremist? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/250 "2016-06-13T17:21:45Z")
I thought the fact that my post was a joke would have been obvious. Apologies. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/251 "2016-06-13T17:34:44Z")
My completely uninformed take: This has more to do with homophobia than radical Islam. This guy was an ISIS wannabe, sure; but completely untrained and undirected. If he had any contact with anybody at ISIS, it might have been along the lines of “I’m gonna shoot a bunch of Americans!” to which some low-level ISIS functionary said “knock yourself out”. But what really fried his pea-brain was gays. So he found a way to kill as many gays as possible; and while doing so, pledged allegiance to ISIS. This doesn’t make him a soldier for ISIS any more than it would make me, if I shouted “allahu akhbar!” while holding up a liquor store. I’m sure ISIS is happy to take credit. They’d probably take credit for the Loma Prieta Earthquake. ---
**Author:** ![Personal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Personal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Personal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/252 "2016-06-13T17:41:09Z")
Apologies if posted elsewhere, but I haven’t seen it This [link](http://www.people.com/article/omar-mateen-disney-world-scouted-attacks)from people . com indicates that the killer had scouted Disney World recently as a possible location for an attack. And it suggests that his wife was aware that he was doing so. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/253 "2016-06-13T17:47:35Z")
I heard some reports the guy may have had a suicide vest or what was mocked up to look like such and that may provide a reason for why the swat team didn’t just storm the place as maybe they thought he had a high powered explosive. I also wonder if this guy didn’t have some racism against Hispanics in addition to the homophobia, given his co-worker said he was racist though I didn’t see against whom specifically but I noticed his ex-wife is married to a Hispanic gentleman, not sure if he kept up on her doings but it seems like such a person prone to rage of that sort might mark Hispanics off on his box of people he had a vendetta against. Fox also reported he made two trips to Saudi Arabia, not sure if he was already radicalized at that point but its pretty clear from everyone who knew the guy he was a misanthrope. ---
**Author:** ![SeniorCitizen007](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8baadc/32.png) [@SeniorCitizen007](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeniorCitizen007)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/254 "2016-06-13T18:01:31Z")
The nightclub killer and the killer of Christina Grimmie came from locations a considerable distance from Orlando … but only 10 miles or so apart. Could it be that there was some local influence that sparked them off? Did anything happen recently in their locality that could have put a murderous impulse into their minds? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/255 "2016-06-13T19:19:34Z")
Is it too soon to open a body-count pool on the next one? ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/256 "2016-06-13T19:44:11Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > My completely uninformed take: > > This has more to do with homophobia than radical Islam. This guy was an ISIS wannabe, sure; but completely untrained and undirected. If he had any contact with anybody at ISIS, it might have been along the lines of “I’m gonna shoot a bunch of Americans!” to which some low-level ISIS functionary said “knock yourself out”. > > But what really fried his pea-brain was gays. So he found a way to kill as many gays as possible; and while doing so, pledged allegiance to ISIS. > > This doesn’t make him a soldier for ISIS any more than it would make me, if I shouted “allahu akhbar!” while holding up a liquor store. > > I’m sure ISIS is happy to take credit. They’d probably take credit for the Loma Prieta Earthquake. I think this is a train of thought to consider. Let me see if I can work out what I mean… On Snopes, they’ll mark an urban legend false even if it’s been ‘fulfilled’ since we all first heard tell. So, if Grandpa Jones down the road tries to poison the local junior high with razor apples on Halloween, the original UL is still so much scary story BS and Grandpa is just jumping off from it. Similarly, these lone assholes who want to affiliate with something like ISIS for the notoriety, really aren’t a part and are acting independently. This guy perhaps pictured himself the ultimate badass and sought them out, and as you suggest, they figured why the hell not? No training necessary, just wind him up, watch him go and profit! Then appropriate responsibility. You very well may be on to something. But sadly, I bet a majority of Americans only see brown skin and a promotion of radical Islam. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/257 "2016-06-13T20:33:12Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > You very well may be on to something. But sadly, I bet a majority of Americans only see brown skin and a promotion of radical Islam. A certain segment of Republicans, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/258 "2016-06-13T20:34:32Z")
Another indicator: if he was really ISIS-trained he probably would’ve used a bomb (either planted one, or a suicide vest). But (I bet) he didn’t know how to build a bomb and had no access to explosives. So he just bought a gun. He also didn’t seem to be explicitly suicidal – he tried to shoot his way out twice. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/259 "2016-06-13T20:41:28Z")
> [@SeniorCitizen007](#): > > The nightclub killer and the killer of Christina Grimmie came from locations a considerable distance from Orlando … but only 10 miles or so apart. Could it be that there was some local influence that sparked them off? Did anything happen recently in their locality that could have put a murderous impulse into their minds? I’d write it off as coincidence unless some actual connection can be shown. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/260 "2016-06-13T20:53:55Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > When was the last event in the US that used commercial explosives or weaponized chemicals? > > I think a 1950s airliner downing was with commercial dynamite (the guy used a timer and the point was to kill his mother for her insurance). That may have been the start of the clamp-down on something that most farmers and private citizens could buy. > > Even the 1970 Greenwich Village explosion (Weathermen) was concocted explosives, wasn’t it? Oklahoma City, 1995. He used Tovex to set off the fertilizer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178.md?page=14)