# Mass Casualty Shooting at a nightclub in Orlando. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 12, 2016, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178 "2016-06-12T09:56:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/261 "2016-06-13T20:58:48Z")
> [@Personal](#): > > Apologies if posted elsewhere, but I haven’t seen it > > This [link](http://www.people.com/article/omar-mateen-disney-world-scouted-attacks)from people . com indicates that the killer had scouted Disney World recently as a possible location for an attack. And it suggests that his wife was aware that he was doing so. Interesting alternate scenario – but I doubt it would be nearly as easy to carry an AR-15 into Disney World without somebody noticing. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/262 "2016-06-13T21:02:55Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > The problem with the gun debate is that both sides are convinced that the reason America doesn’t support their view yet is because there hasn’t been enough death and mayhem to win people over to their view. > > Gun-control: _“How many more people must die before America finally wakes up and realizes that we need to ban guns?”_ > Pro-gun: \* “How many more people must die before America finally wakes up and realizes that we need to let more people carry guns to defend themselves?”\* > With each mass shooting, both sides shake their heads in exasperation: _“America STILL hasn’t come around to our point of view yet?”_ I dont say either. I ask “what gun control law would have prevented this? Would that law be legal under the 2nd Ad? Would it put a undue burden on non-criminals?”. In this present case, the guy was a registered Security guard with no felonies and bought and registered the guns legally. He passed the background check. The rifle was a .223, technically yes, a "high powered rifle’ but most all centerfire rifles, all deer rifle etc are “high powered”. Actually the .223 is not that powerful in comparison. Yes, it looked scary, but that means nothing. It did have a large magazine, but from what i have read, just limiting him to a 10 round mag (and plenty pf them) would not have changed things- he had plenty of time. He could have done this just fine with a deer rifle. No gun control law would have prevented this. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/263 "2016-06-13T21:06:09Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > If it is true that the shooter has a history of domestic violence, _that_ is something that should be looked at - perhaps it was not reported to police, but if it was then one would think that would be cause to revoke his license, fire him from a job at G4S, and so on. I checked several stories and it seems it was never reported. Yes, certainly that would be a acceptable reason for denying a gun purchase, it is in CA. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/264 "2016-06-13T21:07:28Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Seems like somebody needs to say it: > > America, BAN assault rifles already, dammit, or else just STFU and live with stunts like this. He could have done this handily with a deer rifle or a shotgun. likely would have killed more. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/265 "2016-06-13T21:14:03Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Freedom? [Last year the USA made it into the top 20 of the Human Freedom Index, but only in last place of the top 20](http://www.freetheworld.com/index.php). I dont see where it sez that. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/266 "2016-06-13T21:18:45Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > **EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD** I apologize that I couldn’t monitor this thread more closely yesterday, so I won’t hand out any additional warnings on previous posts for politicizing this thread. > > This thread is about the news regarding the mass shooting at the Pulse nightclub. > > If you want to discuss: > NRA > Gun laws > Islamic terrorism > Islamophobia > etc > > Take it to: > The Pit > GD > IMHO > > Warnings will be issued for those ignoring these directions. Ok, I want to apologize for my posts, but it’s really hard to follow instructions, where the instructions are _after_ the post we’re responding to. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/267 "2016-06-14T00:32:31Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > My speculation is that he will turn out to be a gay Muslim who was repressed by his own community and this was his way of lashing out. I have no evidence to back this up, just a wild ass guess. > [@Alessan](#): > > Nice - blame it on a gay person. Because we all know that straights can’t be homophobes. And surprise, surprise: regulars at the club are saying they’d seen Mateen there a number of times, and he was using a gay dating app (“Jack’d”) to communicate with some of them. Must of have been so he could hate up close, eh? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/268 "2016-06-14T00:56:19Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > And surprise, surprise: regulars at the club are saying they’d seen Mateen there a number of times, and he was using a gay dating app (“Jack’d”) to communicate with some of them. Must of have been so he could hate up close, eh? Hadn’t heard that, but luring gays is common among violent homophobes. See: Russia. Doesn’t mean they’re gay and suffering from internalized homophobia, although that certainly happens. Did he suck lots of dick to establish his cover? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/269 "2016-06-14T01:00:34Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > And surprise, surprise: regulars at the club are saying they’d seen Mateen there a number of times, and he was using a gay dating app (“Jack’d”) to communicate with some of them. Must of have been so he could hate up close, eh? Link: [Witness: Omar Mateen had been at Orlando gay nightclub many times – Orlando Sentinel](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/pulse-orlando-nightclub-shooting/os-orlando-nightclub-omar-mateen-profile-20160613-story.html) > [@](#): > > Smith told the Orlando Sentinel that he saw Mateen inside at least a dozen times. > … > Another Pulse regular, Kevin West, told the Los Angeles Times that Mateen messaged him on and off for a year using a gay chat app. I suppose it’s possible that he was just scouting out his target but a dozen times seems excessive for simply checking out security or whatever. I suppose he could have been using the chat app to find out about gay hangouts but on and off for a year? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/270 "2016-06-14T01:09:42Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Link: [Witness: Omar Mateen had been at Orlando gay nightclub many times – Orlando Sentinel](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/pulse-orlando-nightclub-shooting/os-orlando-nightclub-omar-mateen-profile-20160613-story.html) > I suppose it’s possible that he was just scouting out his target but a dozen times seems excessive for simply checking out security or whatever. I suppose he could have been using the chat app to find out about gay hangouts but on and off for a year? This is a job for [Pastor Strate](http://boingboing.net/2011/10/12/tom-the-dancing-bug-definitely.html)! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/271 "2016-06-14T01:11:57Z")
You’d really rather be remembered as a mass murderer than a self-hating queer, wouldn’t you, Omar? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/272 "2016-06-14T02:20:34Z")
Just to ask, how many statements from Republican lawmakers at all even hinted at the particular significant demographics of the victims? I’m curious. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/273 "2016-06-14T02:54:08Z")
So, a guy (whom the FBI looked at as a suspected Muslim terrorist) goes into a gay bar and starts to shoot people. In mid-rampage he calls 911 to profess his allegiance to ISIS. But it’s not really about Islamic terrorism? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/274 "2016-06-14T03:21:30Z")
I see parallels to the late-19th century anarchist movement (See Barbara Tuchman’s _The High Tower_). The rhetoric of the anarchists was incendiary, calling on the workers to rise up in mass revolt against capitalism and the government. Almost nobody did however. The few who did were almost without exception lone nuts who used anarchism as an excuse to avenge their real or imagined grievances. The authorities tried, and tried hard, to find some prosecutable link between those who advocated violence and those who carried it out, usually without success. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/275 "2016-06-14T04:59:05Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > So, a guy (whom the FBI looked at as a suspected Muslim terrorist) goes into a gay bar and starts to shoot people. In mid-rampage he calls 911 to profess his allegiance to ISIS. But it’s not really about Islamic terrorism? If the only thing he said about the shooting was the IS affiliation - maybe it would be solely about Islamic Terrorism. But he didn’t, and it’s not. It’s also about the fact that he’s a self-hating gay man freaked out by homophobia. So far, there’s more evidence about the homophobia than about the IS thing. So why should we ignore the homophobic aspect? Why should we panic about the Muslim thing and give our society’s homophobia a pass? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/276 "2016-06-14T05:09:22Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > And surprise, surprise: regulars at the club are saying they’d seen Mateen there a number of times, and he was using a gay dating app (“Jack’d”) to communicate with some of them. Must of have been so he could hate up close, eh? That _is_ interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/277 "2016-06-14T06:07:45Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > If the only thing he said about the shooting was the IS affiliation - maybe it would be solely about Islamic Terrorism. But he didn’t, and it’s not. > > It’s also about the fact that he’s a self-hating gay man freaked out by homophobia. So far, there’s more evidence about the homophobia than about the IS thing. So why should we ignore the homophobic aspect? Why should we panic about the Muslim thing and give our society’s homophobia a pass? Homophobia was most likely a factor, and it shouldn’t be ignored. But Islamic terrorism was very clearly a factor, and to ignore that since it’s un-pc is both ridiculous and despicable. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/278 "2016-06-14T09:21:13Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Homophobia was most likely a factor, and it shouldn’t be ignored. But Islamic terrorism was very clearly a factor, and to ignore that since it’s un-pc is both ridiculous and despicable. We’re not “ignoring” it and political correctness has fuck-all to do with it. Mostly we’re trying to fight the very loud and ignorant narrative that THIS PROVES MUSLIMS WANT TO KILL US ALL!!! rather than trying to find out what the hell was going on with this guy. It’s entirely possible, for example, that he was a gay man who grew up in a strict religious household and expressed his increasing level of self-loathing in a series of violent episodes - from assaulting the wife he married to prove to himself and his family that he was a manly straight man and not one of “those faggots”, to killing the people who represented everything he simultaneously wanted to be and loathed about himself. He’d hardly be the first closeted gay-basher by a long shot, although usually the guys who go out looking to kick in the heads of a few “queers” outside gay bars only assault a couple of people at a time. And of course what better way to prove that he was a “proper Muslim” than to ascribe his actions to the _holy cause du jour_? You’ll note he only did this halfway through the massacre, suggesting this wasn’t really part of the plan; if he’d left a video that’d be a whole other story. Frankly this whole episode has “Daddy, do you love me now?!?” written all over it. Of course, all that is a purely speculative narrative I’ve built based on the few facts of the case I’ve encountered grafted onto some previous stories of right-wing closeted Christian homophobes who, after years of inciting hatred, suddenly turned out to have been acting out against their own repressed urges and making everyone else the victims of their own self-loathing. It may be true, it may be partly true, or it may be complete nonsense. But it at least attempts to understand what makes a young man kill or attempt to kill a hundred people rather than leaping straight to “MUSLIMS BAD! THEY KILL I!” and pretending that “they” are nothing like us at all. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/279 "2016-06-14T09:27:00Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > My completely uninformed take: > > This has more to do with homophobia than radical Islam. This guy was an ISIS wannabe, sure; but completely untrained and undirected. If he had any contact with anybody at ISIS, it might have been along the lines of “I’m gonna shoot a bunch of Americans!” to which some low-level ISIS functionary said “knock yourself out”. > > But what really fried his pea-brain was gays. So he found a way to kill as many gays as possible; and while doing so, pledged allegiance to ISIS. > > This doesn’t make him a soldier for ISIS any more than it would make me, if I shouted “allahu akhbar!” while holding up a liquor store. > > I’m sure ISIS is happy to take credit. They’d probably take credit for the Loma Prieta Earthquake. Homophobia and radical Islam go hand-in-hand, so you can’t exactly say it’s about one but not the other. Also, we now know he went to Saudi Arabia twice. ISIS didn’t “do” the attack, but this guy didn’t pull off the worst mass shooting ever purely by luck. We don’t know the full extent of professional terrorists’ involvement, but the guy drove over 100 miles to just the right target and used perfect tactics used by terrorists in places like Mumbai to maximize the body count. I think it’s very unlikely that he didn’t get professional advice. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/280 "2016-06-14T09:29:16Z")
> [@pool](#): > > I heard some reports the guy may have had a suicide vest or what was mocked up to look like such and that may provide a reason for why the swat team didn’t just storm the place as maybe they thought he had a high powered explosive. I also wonder if this guy didn’t have some racism against Hispanics in addition to the homophobia, given his co-worker said he was racist though I didn’t see against whom specifically but I noticed his ex-wife is married to a Hispanic gentleman, not sure if he kept up on her doings but it seems like such a person prone to rage of that sort might mark Hispanics off on his box of people he had a vendetta against. Fox also reported he made two trips to Saudi Arabia, not sure if he was already radicalized at that point but its pretty clear from everyone who knew the guy he was a misanthrope. According to a co-worker he had a serious problem with gays, blacks, and Latinos. > **[Former co-worker says Orlando gunman was 'unhinged and unstable', went on...](https://www.foxnews.com/us/former-co-worker-says-orlando-gunman-was-unhinged-and-unstable-went-on-racist-misogynistic-rants)** > > The gunman who killed at least 49 people at an Orlando nightclub early Sunday was described by a former colleague as an "unhinged and unstable" person who repeatedly made racist, misogynist and homophobic remarks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178.md?page=15)