# Mass Casualty Shooting at a nightclub in Orlando. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 12, 2016, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178 "2016-06-12T09:56:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/281 "2016-06-14T09:30:31Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > So, a guy (whom the FBI looked at as a suspected Muslim terrorist) goes into a gay bar and starts to shoot people. In mid-rampage he calls 911 to profess his allegiance to ISIS. But it’s not really about Islamic terrorism? If he’d expressed allegiance with Fred Phelps, we’d be having a very different conversation, wouldn’t we? ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/282 "2016-06-14T10:34:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > According to a co-worker he had a serious problem with gays, blacks, and Latinos. > > [Former co-worker says Orlando gunman was 'unhinged and unstable', went on racist, misogynistic rants | Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/13/former-co-worker-says-orlando-gunman-was-unhinged-and-unstable-went-on-racist-misogynistic-rants.html) Allegations are surfacing that [Mateen was secretly gay.](http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/news/orlando-shooter-omar-mateen-was-gay-former-classma/nrfwW/) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/283 "2016-06-14T10:46:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Homophobia and radical Islam go hand-in-hand, so you can’t exactly say it’s about one but not the other. Also, we now know he went to Saudi Arabia twice. ISIS didn’t “do” the attack, but this guy didn’t pull off the worst mass shooting ever purely by luck. We don’t know the full extent of professional terrorists’ involvement, but the guy drove over 100 miles to just the right target and used perfect tactics used by terrorists in places like Mumbai to maximize the body count. I think it’s very unlikely that he didn’t get professional advice. He had apparently been [a regular at that nightclub](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/orlando-gunman-was-a-regular-at-lgbt-nightclub-pulse-before-atta/). Which, if true, supports my speculative “self-hating gay” theory and also why he picked it as a target. How much tactical planning does it take to walk into a crowded club with a semi-automatic weapon and start shooting? A couple hours browsing the internet would have sufficed - you don’t need to be Osama bin Laden to pull something like this off. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/284 "2016-06-14T10:54:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If he’d expressed allegiance with Fred Phelps, we’d be having a very different conversation, wouldn’t we? Yes, you wouldn’t have spent so much time in GD demanding that Obama call it Islamic terrorism, would you? ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/285 "2016-06-14T11:04:16Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > He had apparently been [a regular at that nightclub](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/14/orlando-gunman-was-a-regular-at-lgbt-nightclub-pulse-before-atta/). Which, if true, supports my speculative “self-hating gay” theory and also why he picked it as a target. > > How much tactical planning does it take to walk into a crowded club with a semi-automatic weapon and start shooting? A couple hours browsing the internet would have sufficed - you don’t need to be Osama bin Laden to pull something like this off. The link also claims he scouted Disney World and the FBI had previously suspected him of being a security risk. In my mind this suggests an entire clusterfuck of conflicting causes. I think this is one of the cases where there is no sharp distinction to be made between a hate crime and terrorism. Im of the belief that many a spree killer is looking for infamy. I think we are perhaps seeing a similar movement with Muslims involved in such crimes. A disillusioned, less than ideologically correct Muslim turning his last moments into a screaming great act of affirmation of faith. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/286 "2016-06-14T12:53:09Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Yes, you wouldn’t have spent so much time in GD demanding that Obama call it Islamic terrorism, would you? You know very well that his church would be raided in less than 24 hours. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/287 "2016-06-14T13:13:28Z")
Horse shit. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/288 "2016-06-14T13:41:45Z")
Definitely horseshit. And FoxNews and Breitbart would spend (even more) months screaming about Obama’s War on Christians. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/289 "2016-06-14T13:43:41Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > But Islamic terrorism was very clearly a factor, and to ignore that since it’s un-pc is both ridiculous and despicable. So how do you distinguish between someone striking a blow for their oppressed Islamic brethren, and someone who wraps themselves in an ISIS flag literally moments before acting out as a bipolar, wife-beating, racist, loud-mouthed homophobe (which all too often equates to self-hating closeted gay) who decides to go out in the biggest possible suicide by cop? The evidence for his radicalization, self or otherwise, seems to be very recent and short term. I think “Islamic terror” was the cart being pulled by a fruitcake’s suicide plan, and not the other way around. ETA: “Cart” maybe overstating it. Quick paint job on the plan might be closer. One of those “might as well really make big headlines” add-ons. ---
**Author:** ![tonyfop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@tonyfop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tonyfop)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/290 "2016-06-14T13:56:18Z")
I have not read through this entire thread, but I just found out something interesting about Mr. Mateen. The Guardian has dug up a name change certificate from Florida from when he changed his name a few years ago. It lists his original place of birth as New Hyde Park, Queens, NY. I am from New Hyde Park, which is mostly in Nassau County, with just a small bit in Queens. The funny thing is that if that is his place of birth, there is a hospital in the Queens portion of New Hyde Park. That Hospital is the Long Island Jewish Medical Center, which I would think is an odd place for his parents (his father supposedly being pro-Taliban) to have their child. This is all speculation on my part, but this is MPSIMS. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/291 "2016-06-14T13:59:39Z")
The shooter claimed ties to competing Islamic groups - groups that are fighting each other. I don’t think his motivations were Islamic in nature - i think he wanted to take out gays, and go out seen as a warrior for Allah. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/292 "2016-06-14T14:03:50Z")
That makes sense if you ignore his ties to a radical imam and his trips to Saudi Arabia. That’s a lot of trouble to go to for someone not motivated by religion. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/293 "2016-06-14T14:07:53Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > The shooter claimed ties to competing Islamic groups - groups that are fighting each other. I don’t think his motivations were Islamic in nature - i think he wanted to take out gays, and go out seen as a warrior for Allah. I’ve seen this claim (that he claimed ties to competing groups) several times but I can’t find any reliable cites for it. Do you have a cite? I’m not doubting you, I’d like to be able to use it in a discussion I’m having elsewhere, but I need a cite. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/294 "2016-06-14T14:12:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That makes sense if you ignore his ties to a radical imam and his trips to Saudi Arabia. That’s a lot of trouble to go to for someone not motivated by religion. What exactly are his ties to this imam? What is your cite for this? Everything I’m reading says that authorities haven’t yet found any indication that this attack was directed. I don’t think that anyone is saying that religion wasn’t part of what was in this man’s head, just that it so far doesn’t appear that he was directed by ISIS rather than acting on his own. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/295 "2016-06-14T14:23:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That makes sense if you ignore his ties to a radical imam and his **trips to Saudi Arabia**. That’s a lot of trouble to go to for someone not motivated by religion. My bold. Any chance he could have gone there for, say, [common religious pilgrimages](http://www.businessinsider.com/omar-mateen-saudi-uae-umrah-2016-6)? I’m not committing to any opinion yet on the guy’s motives. But a Muslim making a couple trips to Saudi Arabia doesn’t really prove much in the way of terrorist sympathies. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/296 "2016-06-14T14:32:00Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I’ve seen this claim (that he claimed ties to competing groups) several times but I can’t find any reliable cites for it. Do you have a cite? I’m not doubting you, I’d like to be able to use it in a discussion I’m having elsewhere, but I need a cite. We were watching CNN for several hours and the FBI director said that was what got him investigated by them. Here’s an article: [http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2016/06/orlando\_shooter\_may\_not\_have\_u.html](http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2016/06/orlando_shooter_may_not_have_u.html) ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/297 "2016-06-14T14:36:32Z")
Sadly but predictably, there are already people claiming it was a false flag operation. I don’t want to improve any of their Google rankings by linking to anything but google _orlando shooting hoax_. There are many articles, and there are Youtube videos attacking witnesses as “crisis actors”. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/298 "2016-06-14T14:52:25Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I think this is one of the cases where there is no sharp distinction to be made between a hate crime and terrorism. Im of the belief that many a spree killer is looking for infamy. This really is what it boils down to. Mateen was a psychopathic attention-seeking loser with severe self-loathing issues, and it was only a matter of time before he went off the reservation. It has nothing to do with ISIS, that’s merely a convenient excuse he made up for himself. If Islamic fundamentalism didn’t exist, he would have committed his deed in the name of Ragnarök or something. > [@davidm](#): > > Sadly but predictably, there are already people claiming it was a false flag operation. I don’t want to improve any of their Google rankings by linking to anything but google _orlando shooting hoax_. There are many articles, and there are Youtube videos attacking witnesses as “crisis actors”. How come these False Flag believers always claim the event itself didn’t happen? A _true_ false flag is an action committed for the sake of blaming someone else, but the event itself still happens. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/299 "2016-06-14T14:53:35Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > We were watching CNN for several hours and the FBI director said that was what got him investigated by them. Here’s an article: > > [http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2016/06/orlando\_shooter\_may\_not\_have\_u.html](http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2016/06/orlando_shooter_may_not_have_u.html) Here’s a better cite, with video of Comey explaining the Hezbollah /al Qaeda / al nusra contradictions. [http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0YZ23B](http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0YZ23B) ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/300 "2016-06-14T14:57:21Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Sadly but predictably, there are already people claiming it was a false flag operation. Well, whoever staged it fucked it up pretty good, then. A wishy-washy-maybe Islamic warrior (with other problems including, probably, repressed homosexuality) shoots up a Latino gay nightclub. While this will provoke all due horror and revulsion in right-thinking people, I can’t imagine how this gets spun to support either lefty or righty nutcase causes. Are the lefties going to go all nuke-Islam? Are the righties going to embrace their gay brethren? Seems pretty unlikely. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178.md?page=16)