# Mass Casualty Shooting at a nightclub in Orlando. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 12, 2016, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178 "2016-06-12T09:56:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/341 "2016-06-15T11:26:24Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I started a thread about the alligator attack last night. > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=795794](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=795794) > > Why discuss it in an unrelated thread? Because it also occurred in Orlando? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/342 "2016-06-15T11:44:00Z")
Lots of things occur in Orlando. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/343 "2016-06-15T12:12:59Z")
Three tragic and newsworthy events occurred in Orlando in just five days. It’s inevitable that people are going to bring all three of them up. I don’t really see how that is a problem in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/344 "2016-06-15T13:23:28Z")
I still remember the zombie cannibal attack. The cops were saying, 'maybe it was the marijuana!" ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/345 "2016-06-15T13:54:54Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It’s not about “picking a team”; it’s about the credence we give the claims. It’s like a “Christian extremist” claiming to be a Catholic Mormon; at some point you have to wonder how much was actual religion-inspired violence and how much was because he was a confused loon. > > Religion was certainly a big factor here, but is the religion to blame or the fact that this particular guy had “personal issues”? We seem perfectly happy to blame the other hundreds of mass shootings in the US on lone nuttery; why not this guy? I don’t think we can completely disentwine religion and mental illness this time. HIs ex-wife said he’s bi-polar, but she’s not a psychologist and AFAIK, he’d never been diagnosed. All these ISIS extremists raping, enslaving and throwing gays off buildings, I’d like to say they’re all loony toons, too. That last Planned Parenthood attack in Colorado Springs was just a 15 minute walk from my house. I’m pretty sure I did call him a Christian terrorist, but it turns out he’s mostly not religious and _is_ nuts. I’m certainly willing to call a Christian terrorist a Christian terrorist, if that’s what it looks like. But when it comes to religious extremism, I’m really not sure where to draw the line between nuts and/or religious, generally speaking. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/346 "2016-06-15T13:59:08Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [Timeline](http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/06/12/us/what-happened-at-the-orlando-nightclub-shooting.html) > > Not only a good guy with a gun but a good guy with a gun and trained to use it in this kind of situation. Good to know that at least someone tried. Sadly though the shooter was also well trained and better armed. Thing is the shooter had been planning this out for a long time with frequent visits and with his background in security was able to spot all the potential roadblocks and get around all the security. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/347 "2016-06-15T15:29:43Z")
There is no way I"m going anywhere near a dance club filled with people drinking, doing party drugs and they’re all armed. No way. I highly doubt many club owners would ever consider such idiocy for even a moment. You might find a few white-supremacist biker bars with this “everyone armed” policy, but I ain’t going anywhere near those places either. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/348 "2016-06-16T08:37:03Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I don’t think we can completely disentwine religion and mental illness this time. HIs ex-wife said he’s bi-polar, but she’s not a psychologist and AFAIK, he’d never been diagnosed. All these ISIS extremists raping, enslaving and throwing gays off buildings, I’d like to say they’re all loony toons, too. > > That last Planned Parenthood attack in Colorado Springs was just a 15 minute walk from my house. I’m pretty sure I did call him a Christian terrorist, but it turns out he’s mostly not religious and _is_ nuts. I’m certainly willing to call a Christian terrorist a Christian terrorist, if that’s what it looks like. But when it comes to religious extremism, I’m really not sure where to draw the line between nuts and/or religious, generally speaking. Fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foggy/32/1082_2.png) [@Foggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foggy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/349 "2016-06-16T08:51:50Z")
I’m sure it’s been said/reported somewhere, just how many people were at the club at 2am? Thanks ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/350 "2016-06-16T09:42:07Z")
> [@Foggy](#): > > I’m sure it’s been said/reported somewhere, just how many people were at the club at 2am? > > Thanks There were about 300 people in the club when Mateen started shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/351 "2016-06-16T11:13:40Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > There is no way I"m going anywhere near a dance club filled with people drinking, doing party drugs and they’re all armed. No way. I highly doubt many club owners would ever consider such idiocy for even a moment. You might find a few white-supremacist biker bars with this “everyone armed” policy, but I ain’t going anywhere near those places either. These wont be drunk partygoers but staff and security. It sounds like their was such a person at the club but died trying to shoot the guy. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/352 "2016-06-17T02:39:10Z")
> [@Foggy](#): > > I’m sure it’s been said/reported somewhere, just how many people were at the club at 2am? > > Thanks They’re open until 230, the reports I saw said it was happening as people were finishing their drinks. For a big club, it’s not uncommon to stay full until closing. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2016, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/353 "2016-06-17T23:44:15Z")
One county in Alabama has all flags at full mast. In fairness to the official who is saying “no,” he also refused to lower flags for Sandy hook and other tragedies. > **[Alabama county refuses to lower flag to honor Orlando shooting victims | CNN...](https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/17/politics/alabama-county-refuse-lower-flag-orlando/index.html)** > > Officials in an Alabama county refused to lower flags to half-staff to honor the victims of the Orlando mass shooting this week even after President Barack Obama and Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley ordered flags to be lowered. (The article doesn’t mention Sandy hook, but the interview on CNN right now did.) ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/354 "2016-06-20T07:19:21Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > We’re not “ignoring” it and political correctness has fuck-all to do with it. Mostly we’re trying to fight the very loud and ignorant narrative that THIS PROVES MUSLIMS WANT TO KILL US ALL!!! rather than trying to find out what the hell was going on with this guy. > > It’s entirely possible, for example, that he was a gay man who grew up in a strict religious household and expressed his increasing level of self-loathing in a series of violent episodes - from assaulting the wife he married to prove to himself and his family that he was a manly straight man and not one of “those faggots”, to killing the people who represented everything he simultaneously wanted to be and loathed about himself. He’d hardly be the first closeted gay-basher by a long shot, although usually the guys who go out looking to kick in the heads of a few “queers” outside gay bars only assault a couple of people at a time. And of course what better way to prove that he was a “proper Muslim” than to ascribe his actions to the _holy cause du jour_? You’ll note he only did this halfway through the massacre, suggesting this wasn’t really part of the plan; if he’d left a video that’d be a whole other story. Frankly this whole episode has “Daddy, do you love me now?!?” written all over it. > > Of course, all that is a purely speculative narrative I’ve built based on the few facts of the case I’ve encountered grafted onto some previous stories of right-wing closeted Christian homophobes who, after years of inciting hatred, suddenly turned out to have been acting out against their own repressed urges and making everyone else the victims of their own self-loathing. It may be true, it may be partly true, or it may be complete nonsense. But it at least attempts to understand what makes a young man kill or attempt to kill a hundred people rather than leaping straight to “MUSLIMS BAD! THEY KILL I!” and pretending that “they” are nothing like us at all. Where has anybody said anything along the lines of “MUSLIMS BAD!”? I certainly didn’t. The fact that you way overreacted in your post tells me I hit close to the mark. Political correctness teaches that homophobia is bad and should be demonized. But Islam can’t be criticized. So clearly the guy who was suspected of terrorism and called 911 in mid-rampage to profess his loyalty to ISIS couldn’t have been motivated by radical Islam. Perish the thought. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/355 "2016-06-20T07:24:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If he’d expressed allegiance with Fred Phelps, we’d be having a very different conversation, wouldn’t we? Truer words have never been posted in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/356 "2016-06-20T07:28:12Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > So how do you distinguish between someone striking a blow for their oppressed Islamic brethren, and someone who wraps themselves in an ISIS flag literally moments before acting out as a bipolar, wife-beating, racist, loud-mouthed homophobe (which all too often equates to self-hating closeted gay) who decides to go out in the biggest possible suicide by cop? The evidence for his radicalization, self or otherwise, seems to be very recent and short term. > > I think “Islamic terror” was the cart being pulled by a fruitcake’s suicide plan, and not the other way around. > > ETA: “Cart” maybe overstating it. Quick paint job on the plan might be closer. One of those “might as well really make big headlines” add-ons. He’d been on the terror list at least two years before the attack and had been interviewed by the FBI at least twice. It was hardly a last moment cover for a self loathing homophobe. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/357 "2016-06-21T23:28:48Z")
I find it sad and pathetic that if I start typing Orlando Google suggests “Orlando Shooting Hoax”. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/358 "2016-06-22T06:35:00Z")
> [@pool](#): > > I find it sad and pathetic that if I start typing Orlando Google suggests “Orlando Shooting Hoax”. This morning I saw that the conspiratards have, predictably, crawled out from under their rocks and are already spinning a false flag narrative. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/359 "2016-06-22T09:41:47Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > Where has anybody said anything along the lines of “MUSLIMS BAD!”? I certainly didn’t. We’ve got many, many threads on the subject, a number of which are live at the moment. Did you want some examples? > [@](#): > > The fact that you way overreacted in your post tells me I hit close to the mark. “The mark” being “spouting blatant nonsense”, yes. > [@](#): > > Political correctness teaches that homophobia is bad and should be demonized. But Islam can’t be criticized. Wow, this “political correctness” guy sounds like a real jerk. I’m sure glad I never had him as a teacher. Or is it a book? Could you cite some relevant passages from the Gospel According to Political Correctness? Or is it just a giant strawman you’ve built? > [@](#): > > So clearly the guy who was suspected of terrorism and called 911 in mid-rampage to profess his loyalty to ISIS couldn’t have been motivated by radical Islam. Perish the thought. Sure he could have. And/or by some other factors. I think we’re in agreement on that. It’s your bizarre “PC means you can’t say stuff!” assertions that are where we differ. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178/360 "2016-06-22T19:03:48Z")
[Well, this is interesting:](http://www.democracynow.org/2016/6/22/headlines/man_who_says_he_was_omar_mateens_lover_claims_orlando_massacre_was_revenge) > [@](#): > > A man who claims he was the lover of Orlando shooter Omar Mateen has told Univision he believes Mateen committed the shooting for revenge, not terrorism. The man, who wore a disguise and called himself “Miguel,” said Mateen bore a grudge against Puerto Rican gay men, including one who revealed he was HIV-positive following a sexual encounter with Mateen. Come to think of it, it was Latino Night at the Pulse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-casualty-shooting-at-a-nightclub-in-orlando/757178.md?page=19)