# Mass Electronic Deletion of novel "1984" from Amazon Kindle. Link **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 19, 2009, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529 "2009-07-19T12:07:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529/1 "2009-07-19T12:07:46Z")
Thousands of people had their copies of George Orwell’s _1984_ deleted from their Kindle book readers by Amazon, illegally, secretly, & without their consent. > **[Amazon Secretly Removes "1984" From the Kindle](https://gizmodo.com/amazon-secretly-removes-1984-from-the-kindle-5317703)** > > Thousands of people last week discovered that Amazon had quietly removed electronic copies of George Orwell's 1984 from their Kindle e-book readers. In > [@](#): > > Thousands of people last week discovered that Amazon had quietly removed electronic copies of George Orwell’s 1984 from their Kindle e-book readers. In the process, Amazon revealed how easy censorship will be in the Kindle age. > > An uproar followed, with outraged customers pointing out the irony that Amazon was deleting copies of a novel about a fascist media state that constantly alters history by changing digital records of what has happened. Amazon’s action flies in the face of what people expect when they purchase a book. Under the “right of first sale” in the U.S., people can do whatever they like with a book after purchasing it, including giving it to a friend or reselling it. There is no option for a bookseller to take that book back once it’s sold._Red highlighting by Bosda_ > > But this isn’t the first time there has been a problem with secret deletings. Stone adds: > “Amazon appears to have deleted other purchased e-books from Kindles recently. Customers commenting on Web forums reported the disappearance of digital editions of the Harry Potter books and the novels of Ayn Rand over similar issues.” If I recall correctly, my comments in a “Kindle” Thread included the concept that government or corporations could easily censor your library, without your consent, for ideological or other reasons. Today it just happened. Keep your paperbacks. ---
**Author:** ![emcee2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emcee2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emcee2k)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529/2 "2009-07-19T12:24:34Z")
Wow, that’s very… uh… what’s the word… you know, where they use propaganda and deceit for political control… it’s named after a writer… Oh right, Machiavellian. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529/3 "2009-07-19T12:26:17Z")
though i actually do own a kindle, i have not actually bought anything from amazon for it, I only buy open DRM files, and they are duplicated on my computer, my kindle and my cellphone, and stored burned on a dvd. Not possible to delete my files. They would have to redelete something every time I loaded it [IF i actually bothered turning on the wireless and actually going online with the thing. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529/4 "2009-07-19T13:05:55Z")
It’s not censorship; it was an attempt to recall a ‘pirated’ work. The works (Animal Farm, too) were uploaded to Amazon’s catalog by a company that does not own the rights to them. When Amazon was made aware of the illegally reproduced works on their site, they deleted them. They also [refunded people’s money, apologized, and said they won’t do that again](http://www.informationweek.com/news/personal_tech/drm/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=218501227). It’s not covered but I highly suspect that the Rand and Potter works were similarly ‘pirated’ offerings. This means that Amazon is going to have to take a lot longer to approve uploads by booksellers due to the need to confirm copyright/reproduction status, and I suspect that older works and smaller booksellers will be hit harder than ones where the publication status is more clearcut. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529/5 "2009-07-19T13:13:50Z")
Sucky. As a matter of interest, in the Kindle library TOS, (I assume that Amazon has one,) do they put in the usual corporate CYA language about how you’re not really buying the book file free and clear, but a licence to use it according to certain terms? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529/6 "2009-07-19T15:50:21Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > Sucky. > > As a matter of interest, in the Kindle library TOS, (I assume that Amazon has one,) do they put in the usual corporate CYA language about how you’re not really buying the book file free and clear, but a licence to use it according to certain terms? [According](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/18/technology/companies/18amazon.html?_r=1) to the _New York Times_ > [@](#): > > Amazon’s published [terms of service agreement](http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200144530) for the Kindle does not appear to give the company the right to delete purchases after they have been made. It says Amazon grants customers the right to keep a “permanent copy of the applicable digital content.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529/7 "2009-07-19T15:53:48Z")
_1984_ does not exist. _1984_ has never existed. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529/8 "2009-07-19T16:13:53Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > _1984_ does not exist. _1984_ has never existed. Shit. That means I never graduated from High School. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Cornelius\_Tuggerson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Cornelius\_Tuggerson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cornelius_Tuggerson)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529/9 "2009-07-19T16:21:32Z")
In case anyone is still freaking out, this is not a censorship issue, this is an army of lawyers gone wild issue, so relax, nothing bad could possibly come out of this. ---
**Author:** ![Scruff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Scruff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruff)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529/10 "2009-07-19T17:37:21Z")
Minor clarification: Amazon did not delete the book from everybody’s Kindles. They deleted the book from the cloud (that mythical semi-real place where your ebooks “live” on the internet). Then when the Kindle next called the mothership (to update subscriptions, get new books, see what was going on), the local copy was deleted because it was gone from your library. Still dumbass, but not quite as “boogah-boogah” scary as Jeff Bezos reaching out from his secret headquarters to pervert every Kindle in America. Don’t know if you can turn off the synchronization (possibly just turning off the wireless access might do it)? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529/11 "2009-07-19T17:53:15Z")
I understand why they did it. Recalling a pirated work is OK by me. The fact the CAN do it creeps me out. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529/12 "2009-07-19T18:42:00Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > _1984_ does not exist. _1984_ has never existed. At least they didn’t delete _1985_. I love that song. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529/13 "2009-07-19T18:42:03Z")
The ability to change what already happened by simply changing all records of it. If I had some talent I would a write a book around that idea. Sadly, all I got so far is the title “The last man in Europe”. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529/14 "2009-07-19T18:47:53Z")
> [@Estilicon](#): > > The ability to change what already happened by simply changing all records of it. > If I had some talent I would a write a book around that idea. I would probably call it “The last man in Europe”. There was an episode of Babylon 5 (the Season 4 finale: _The Deconstruction of Falling Stars_) which showed people in the distant future doing this very thing back and forth with the historical records concerning Babylon 5. So maybe we could describe it as Straczynskian? Nahh, too hard to spell. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529/15 "2009-07-19T19:16:44Z")
- Crosses Kindle off list of things to consider buying \* ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529/16 "2009-07-19T19:27:46Z")
I am sure this episode will be studied as an iconic PR fiasco for decades to come. I wonder if the person who made the decision has ever read 1984. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529/17 "2009-07-19T19:40:36Z")
> [@emcee2k](#): > > Wow, that’s very… uh… what’s the word… you know, where they use propaganda and deceit for political control… it’s named after a writer… Oh right, Machiavellian. I think you mean Orwellian, but it rhymes. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529/18 "2009-07-19T20:19:34Z")
And [you can get 1984 for the Kindle](http://www.amazon.com/Nineteen-Eighty-Four/dp/B002A9JO9W/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248034700&sr=8-6) in a legitimate edition. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529/19 "2009-07-19T20:27:45Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > And [you can get 1984 for the Kindle](http://www.amazon.com/Nineteen-Eighty-Four/dp/B002A9JO9W/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248034700&sr=8-6) in a legitimate edition. And instead of deleting your copy of it, they should replace it with the correct one, as you ALREADY bought and PAID for it, or did they refund everybody…:dubious: Sorry, if you bought it in good faith, it is not your problem they screwed up on making sure they could legitemately sell it … so they are penalizing the purchaser for believing that amazon could sell them the work. Now the people that paid full nick for the ebook are fucked out of their money and book. See? That is exactly why I refuse to go with DRM enabled ebooks, and I refuse to let my kindle call home to Big Brother. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529/20 "2009-07-19T20:29:28Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > And [you can get 1984 for the Kindle](http://www.amazon.com/Nineteen-Eighty-Four/dp/B002A9JO9W/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248034700&sr=8-6) in a legitimate edition. Unless they decide to delete it again. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-electronic-deletion-of-novel-1984-from-amazon-kindle-link/503529.md?page=2)