# Mass immigration- what's to be done? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 4, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909 "2015-09-04T15:24:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/362 "2015-09-12T12:25:33Z")
That “In other words” conclusion is your interpretation, I take it. She did not say that, did she? What she actually said is a simple statement of fact. The right to asylum is right there in the German constitution and nowhere does it say there that this only applies to the first so-and-so-many asylum seekers we get. Do you disagree with that statement? ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/363 "2015-09-12T12:27:40Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Before I believe you, would mind revealing the source of this rumor? It was on an NPR radio show, Thursday night. A refugee in Lebanon was interviewed-said they could buy a fake Syrian passport for about $1000. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/364 "2015-09-12T12:28:20Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > That “In other words” conclusion is your interpretation, I take it. She did not say that, did she? > > What she actually said is a simple statement of fact. The right to asylum is right there in the German constitution and nowhere does it say there that this only applies to the first so-and-so-many asylum seekers we get. Do you disagree with that statement? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/365 "2015-09-12T12:31:33Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > Once again: What do you suggest we do? You keep saying that whatever Germany or Sweden are doing right now is wrong, stupid and will lead to our eventual downfall. > Do you have any better ideas? Ideas that you are actually willing to defend? You suggested forced repatriation, but when I pointed out to you that this would be a violation of the Geneva Convention you dropped the matter. So what is it going to be? Start shipping these people back asap; the word is out that once you reach Germany, your problems are over. As I said, if you want another 4 million people, continue the current course of action. If you do not, you had better ensure that the word is: “reach Germany, and you will be sent back”. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/366 "2015-09-12T12:36:00Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > Yes. That was - short. Would you provide us with your own interpretation of the constitution then? ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/367 "2015-09-12T12:37:08Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Start shipping these people back asap; the word is out that once you reach Germany, your problems are over. As I said, if you want another 4 million people, continue the current course of action. If you do not, you had better ensure that the word is: “reach Germany, and you will be sent back”. Methinks I have asked that question before: Back to where? To Syria? How? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/368 "2015-09-12T12:42:43Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > German authorities are contemplating the confiscation/expropriation of privately owned, but currently unoccupied homes to house refugees. > > [Bund und Ländern prüfen angeblich Zwangsvermietung an Flüchtlinge](http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/fluechtlingskrise/bund-und-laendern-pruefen-angeblich-zwangsvermietung-an-fluechtlinge-13798684.html) > > (This was reported last night). They are considering using unoccupied rental units to temporarily house refugees. They are not handing a refugee the deed to your vacation home. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/369 "2015-09-12T12:45:41Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Start shipping these people back asap; the word is out that once you reach Germany, your problems are over. As I said, if you want another 4 million people, continue the current course of action. If you do not, you had better ensure that the word is: “reach Germany, and you will be sent back”. Shipping them back…where? ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/370 "2015-09-12T12:54:55Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > They are considering using unoccupied rental units to temporarily house refugees. They are not handing a refugee the deed to your vacation home. They obviously wouldn’t transfer ownership to a refugee, but the government can effectively take away your house or your flat and decide who lives there. You will receive some financial compensation. That’s the way it was done in Germany until at least the early 1960s (when there was an extreme shortage of housing as a result of WWII). ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/371 "2015-09-12T13:30:03Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > They obviously wouldn’t transfer ownership to a refugee, but the government can effectively take away your house or your flat and decide who lives there. You will receive some financial compensation. That’s the way it was done in Germany until at least the early 1960s (when there was an extreme shortage of housing as a result of WWII). In other words, Germany has a known and well-used regulation regarding unoccupied rental units. I assume landlords are capable of taking this into account when they decide to get into the business. You may not think this is a good law, and that’s fine. But you completely misrepresented what’s going on. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/372 "2015-09-12T13:38:18Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > In other words, Germany has a known and well-used regulation regarding unoccupied rental units. I assume landlords are capable of taking this into account when they decide to get into the business. > > You may not think this is a good law, and that’s fine. But you completely misrepresented what’s going on. That was more than 50 years ago, when the country lay in ruins, and frankly, I don’t know what knowledge you have about the relevant laws. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/373 "2015-09-12T13:50:07Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > That was more than 50 years ago, when the country lay in ruins, and frankly, I don’t know what knowledge you have about the relevant laws. Neither do we know what knowledge you have about them, right? For the record (and you may correct me, if I am wrong) the Government cannot simply confiscate buildings to house refugees in there. They would have to pass a law though parlament in order to do it. Not to say that it could not be done with the votes that they have, but it would be a fairly big step. But since the OP asks “what’s to be done”, why don’t you give us your take? In this thread, whenever I ask that question, the only answer I seem to get is “send the refugees back”. No one seems to know where this “back” is supposed to be. Do you have a suggestion? ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/374 "2015-09-12T14:27:16Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > Neither do we know what knowledge you have about them, right? > For the record (and you may correct me, if I am wrong) the Government cannot simply confiscate buildings to house refugees in there. They would have to pass a law though parlament in order to do it. Not to say that it could not be done with the votes that they have, but it would be a fairly big step. Under Germany administrative law (specifically the _Polizeigesetze_, police laws), the government can absolutely do that. Until recently, this would have been considered an extremely unusual and radical step, but to my surprise it has already occurred this year in the small town of Olpe: → [http://www.derwesten.de/staedte/nachrichten-aus-olpe-wenden-und-drolshagen/regenbogenland-ab-sofort-fluechtlings-unterkunft-id10337022.html](http://www.derwesten.de/staedte/nachrichten-aus-olpe-wenden-und-drolshagen/regenbogenland-ab-sofort-fluechtlings-unterkunft-id10337022.html) The plans that were discussed in the article I cited earlier would mirror the general post-war rationing of housing. This would be much more far-reaching and would indeed require additional laws. > [@Hiker](#): > > But since the OP asks “what’s to be done”, why don’t you give us your take? In this thread, whenever I ask that question, the only answer I seem to get is “send the refugees back”. No one seems to know where this “back” is supposed to be. Do you have a suggestion? Here is my suggestion: _Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!_ Let them come to America! ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/375 "2015-09-12T14:28:36Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > The Austrian town of [Nickelsdorf](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickelsdorf) (pop. 1,700, on the border to Hungary) has been raided by 10,000 immigrants, who crossed the border from Hungary, since 7 a.m. (local time) yesterday. This spiked my interest and I tried to find anything about it. My initial reaction was “Holy shit! This is going to cause a reaction in a big way” because I assume that when a town is ‘raided’ by a force that is more than 5 times its own size it will be completely destroyed. I also figured that this must cause a huge national response, like calling in the military to stop these raiders, and obviously huge efforts to help stabilize and rebuild whatever is left of Nickelsdorf after this raid. How many died? How many survivors are there? Where private homes burned down and looted or was it mainly contained to stores and public buildings? Where are these raiders now and are they armed? ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/376 "2015-09-12T14:43:45Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > This spiked my interest and I tried to find anything about it. My initial reaction was “Holy shit! This is going to cause a reaction in a big way” because I assume that when a town is ‘raided’ by a force that is more than 5 times its own size it will be completely destroyed. I also figured that this must cause a huge national response, like calling in the military to stop these raiders, and obviously huge efforts to help stabilize and rebuild whatever is left of Nickelsdorf after this raid. How many died? How many survivors are there? Where private homes burned down and looted or was it mainly contained to stores and public buildings? Where are these raiders now and are they armed? The mayor of Nickelsdorf referred to it as a “_Menscheninvasion_” (invasion of humans). I guess it’s a figure of speech. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/377 "2015-09-12T15:27:45Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > Under Germany administrative law (specifically the _Polizeigesetze_, police laws), the government can absolutely do that. Until recently, this would have been considered an extremely unusual and radical step, but to my surprise it has already occurred this year in the small town of Olpe: > > → [http://www.derwesten.de/staedte/nachrichten-aus-olpe-wenden-und-drolshagen/regenbogenland-ab-sofort-fluechtlings-unterkunft-id10337022.html](http://www.derwesten.de/staedte/nachrichten-aus-olpe-wenden-und-drolshagen/regenbogenland-ab-sofort-fluechtlings-unterkunft-id10337022.html) > > The plans that were discussed in the article I cited earlier would mirror the general post-war rationing of housing. This would be much more far-reaching and would indeed require additional laws. The article you have cited does not describe the confiscation of private property. Under the terms of the “Ordnungsbehörden-Gesetz” the land of North-Rhine-Westphalia has assumed control over a building owned by the city of Olpe. To do the same with private property, a government would have to pass a “Gesetz zur Bewältigung einer Notlage” ( law to cope with an emergency situation) - at least according to [this article](http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/wirtschaftspolitik/beschlagnahmung-leerstehender-wohnungen-fuer-fluechtlinge-13749366.html). The article also mentions that the target of the suggested confiscations are investment groups that own large numbers of unoccupied appartments. Even so, I highly doubt that this will actually happen. > [@Donnerwetter](#): > > Here is my suggestion: > \<…\> > Let them come to America! That sure would be helpful. But at this point all we can do is ask the Americans nicely. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/378 "2015-09-12T15:49:10Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > The article you have cited does not describe the confiscation of private property. Under the terms of the “Ordnungsbehörden-Gesetz” the land of North-Rhine-Westphalia has assumed control over a building owned by the city of Olpe. > > To do the same with private property, a government would have to pass a “Gesetz zur Bewältigung einer Notlage” ( law to cope with an emergency situation) - at least according to [this article](http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/wirtschaftspolitik/beschlagnahmung-leerstehender-wohnungen-fuer-fluechtlinge-13749366.html). The article also mentions that the target of the suggested confiscations are investment groups that own large numbers of unoccupied appartments. Even so, I highly doubt that this will actually happen. No, it doesn’t say that. This gentleman is referring to something else (I’m assuming he means emergency funding). With regards to the case in Olpe, it is my understanding that the property was subsequently sold to the city of Olpe, but it was originally confiscated by the regional government (_Bezirksregierung_) in Arnsberg which is acting on behalf of the State of North Rhine-Westphalia. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/379 "2015-09-12T16:07:38Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Should the Western nations intervene somehow to fix whatever shitholes these people came from, so that they can eventually go back, and so that the immigrant flow ceases? > > Is there a reasonable expectation that if your standard of living sucks where you are, that some other country should be required to accept you living there so that your standard of living improves? The two are not mutually exclusive. On the first question, yes, that’s the strategic solution – not to make it so that “the immigrant flow ceases”, but to fix the life-threatening conditions that are creating such numbers of desperate refugees. A related problem is that the Middle Eastern countries that these refugees have the most cultural commonality with [are doing the least to help them](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-syrian-refugees-germany-saudi-arabia-kuwait-edit-20150908-story.html). But the second question I think is misstated. It presumes that admitting immigrants from a place with a lower living standard somehow diminishes our own, that they come here to leech off our good fortune. In fact, properly vetted and screened immigrants that contribute to economic productivity create a win-win for all concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/380 "2015-09-12T16:34:51Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > But the second question I think is misstated. It presumes that admitting immigrants from a place with a lower living standard somehow diminishes our own, that they come here to leech off our good fortune. In fact, properly vetted and screened immigrants that contribute to economic productivity create a win-win for all concerned. Yes, and I’d like to reiterate and emphasize: properly vetted and screened There is actually a precedent for this. Starting in the late 1970s and caused by the civil war in Lebanon, about 180,000 Lebanese refugees settled in Germany. The integration process for this group has been a complete and utter disaster: 90 % unemployment, 80 % don’t finish school (in the year 2008, mind you, these are the children and grand-children of the original refugees). (Cite: [http://www.ghadban.de/de/wp-content/data/die-libanon-fluchtlinge2.pdf](http://www.ghadban.de/de/wp-content/data/die-libanon-fluchtlinge2.pdf) ) ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/381 "2015-09-12T16:53:46Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Why would they be coming by sea? Look at a map. ??? It’s quite possible they could come by the Sea of Gallilee, if they miss the landmines in the Golan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909.md?page=20)