# Mass immigration- what's to be done? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 4, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909 "2015-09-04T15:24:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/121 "2015-09-06T15:14:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s good, but that’s not the same thing as accepting and sheltering some of the fleeing refugees. No it is not and I don’t think Israel should invite in people from a country it is at war with, who want to destroy it. And yes, of course, your comeback will be “not every one of those people wants to destroy Israel”. ROTFL. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/122 "2015-09-06T15:23:54Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No it is not and I don’t think Israel should invite in people from a country it is at war with, who want to destroy it. And yes, of course, your comeback will be “not every one of those people wants to destroy Israel”. ROTFL. No, my response is that refugees fleeing from violence should be treated the same regardless of the political goals of the leaders of the countries they are fleeing from. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/123 "2015-09-06T15:25:44Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes. That’s called “economic migrant”. Not “refugee”. That is your personal definition. Wikipedia defines refugee as follows: [QUOTE=Wikipedia] A refugee, in contrast to a migrant, is according to the Geneva Convention on Refugees a person who is outside their home country of citizenship because they have well-founded grounds for fear of persecution because of their race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, and is unable to obtain sanctuary from their home country or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail of the sanctuary of that country [/QUOTE] There is a difference between a migrant who moves fom Serbia to Germany in order to find better job opportunities and a Syrian who leaves a Turkish refugee camp. Your personal - incorrect - definition of refugee is very convenient for you. Given the fact that Syrian refugees have no practical way of directly fleeing to Germany (or the US for that matter) these countries can never possibly be faced with any refugees. An easy way to weasle out of the problem. But tell: Why should the responsibility to help the Syrian refugees solely rest on the shoulders of Syria’s neighbors? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/124 "2015-09-06T15:25:51Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That’s what every economic migrant says. And some of them are probably telling the truth. Not all refugees are liars, and not all economic migrants are liars. > [@](#): > > You do - I suggest you petition to invite a Syrian family and host it in your house. Every refugee law that I know of requires proof of “no choice” or “horrors”. Not a statement of it. I would definitely consider it. And “proof” can consist solely of eyewitness statements. It often does, in fact. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/125 "2015-09-06T15:28:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I would definitely consider it. And “proof” can consist solely of eyewitness statements. It often does, in fact. And yet you still have no “eyewitness statements” of “horrors” other than economic difficulties that these migrants faced that forced them to strive for Germany from the countries to which they fled. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/126 "2015-09-06T15:30:24Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And yet you still have no “eyewitness statements” of “horrors” other than economic difficulties that these migrants faced that forced them to strive for Germany from the countries to which they fled. Yes I do – I have seen interviews in which they describe these horrors (including the horrors inside the refugee camps outside of Syria). ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/127 "2015-09-06T15:31:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes I do – I have seen interviews in which they describe these horrors (including the horrors inside the refugee camps outside of Syria). Cite for “horrors” facing the migrants in let’s say Hungary? So far I have seen claims of inadequate sanitation. Any other “horrors”? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/128 "2015-09-06T15:38:00Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Cite for “horrors” facing the migrants in let’s say Hungary? So far I have seen claims of inadequate sanitation. Any other “horrors”? Now you’re moving the goalposts to “horrors” in one specific country in question. Were I to find some, would this change your mind? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/129 "2015-09-06T15:40:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Now you’re moving the goalposts to “horrors” in one specific country in question. Were I to find some, would this change your mind? Well it would definitely show at least some backing for your argument. As opposed to none. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/130 "2015-09-06T15:42:04Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Should the Western nations intervene somehow to fix whatever shitholes these people came from, so that they can eventually go back, and so that the immigrant flow ceases? Yes > [@bump](#): > > Is there a reasonable expectation that if your standard of living sucks where you are, that some other country should be required to accept you living there so that your standard of living improves? No. The problem is a civil/religious war and it doesn’t need to be fought over here. Deal with the problem at the source. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/131 "2015-09-06T15:49:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Cite for “horrors” facing the migrants in let’s say Hungary? So far I have seen claims of inadequate sanitation. Any other “horrors”? The very infamous truck with 71 immigrants that suffocated to dead was, based on the reports seen, organized in Hungary and the smugglers worked there. The truck was coming from Hungary and abandoned in Austria and it is very likely that all had died already while the truck was still running over Hungary. > **[Migrant crisis: Four arrests over Austria lorry deaths](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34083337)** > > Hungarian police arrest four people over the discovery of the bodies of 71 migrants, thought to be Syrian, in an abandoned lorry in Austria. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/132 "2015-09-06T15:52:34Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Well it would definitely show at least some backing for your argument. As opposed to none. **GIGO** just offered one, which I suspect you already knew about. The backing for my argument is about human rights and morality – that needy people should be treated with compassion, in balance to the ability of those from whom they are asking for help. That some countries (including many European countries, Israel, and the US) could do more and should do more to help these needy people. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/133 "2015-09-06T16:02:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Cite for “horrors” facing the migrants in let’s say Hungary? So far I have seen claims of inadequate sanitation. Any other “horrors”? How is the situation in Hungary relevant to your argument? Should Hungary be taking in the refugees? Why? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/134 "2015-09-06T16:03:42Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The very infamous truck with 71 immigrants that suffocated to dead was, based on the reports seen, organized in Hungary and the smugglers worked there. The truck was coming from Hungary and abandoned in Austria and it is very likely that all had died already while the truck was still running over Hungary. > > [Migrant crisis: Four arrests over Austria lorry deaths - BBC News](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34083337) Sorry, but if deaths while being smuggled are reason to grant a blanket refugee status, then every Mexican migrant trying to get into the US should be a “refugee”. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/135 "2015-09-06T16:04:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > **GIGO** just offered one, which I suspect you already knew about. The backing for my argument is about human rights and morality – that needy people should be treated with compassion, in balance to the ability of those from whom they are asking for help. Ah another moving goalpost. Now it’s “needy people”. Not “refugees” anymore? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/136 "2015-09-06T16:06:08Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > How is the situation in Hungary relevant to your argument? Should Hungary be taking in the refugees? Why? “Should” is for Hungarians to decide. “Must” - no, since those are not “refugees” but economic migrants. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/137 "2015-09-06T16:06:25Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Ah another moving goalpost. Now it’s “needy people”. Not “refugees” anymore? That’s the principle – these refugees (and other people) are included among the general concept of “needy people”. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/138 "2015-09-06T16:07:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s the principle – these refugees (and other people) are included among the general concept of “needy people”. Except those are not “refugees”. If you want to switch your argument to “needy people”, that’s a different argument. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/139 "2015-09-06T16:07:37Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The very infamous truck with 71 immigrants that suffocated to dead was, based on the reports seen, organized in Hungary and the smugglers worked there. The truck was coming from Hungary and abandoned in Austria and it is very likely that all had died already while the truck was still running over Hungary. > > [Migrant crisis: Four arrests over Austria lorry deaths - BBC News](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34083337) > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > **GIGO** just offered one, which I suspect you already knew about. The backing for my argument is about human rights and morality – that needy people should be treated with compassion, in balance to the ability of those from whom they are asking for help. That some countries (including many European countries, Israel, and the US) could do more and should do more to help these needy people. That’s actually a cite arguing NOT to leave your host country since that happened to people leaving Hungary for another country. And I don’t know why Terr chose Hungary. Is Hungary a country of first refuge for any of these folks? Didn’t they get to Hungary from another country where they were originally refugees? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/140 "2015-09-06T16:08:10Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Except those are not “refugees”. If you want to switch your argument to “needy people”, that’s a different argument. Says you. I believe some of them are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909.md?page=8)