# Mass immigration- what's to be done? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 4, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909 "2015-09-04T15:24:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/141 "2015-09-06T16:08:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Says you. I believe some of them are. Faith. What a concept. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/142 "2015-09-06T16:09:37Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > No it is not. You are making it very easy for yourself there. The refugees arriving in Germany these days are not Greek, Turkish or Hungarian. They are Syrian. Basically what you are saying is that we should not be helping the refugees, because Turkey can do it. A very selfish point of view. You’re not aware that they were passed through from Greece, Turkey and Hungary?. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/143 "2015-09-06T16:10:43Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s actually a cite arguing NOT to leave your host country since that happened to people leaving Hungary for another country. Trying to leave a shitty camp is pretty normal behavior for refugees, and shouldn’t lead to horrors like suffocating inside a truck. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/144 "2015-09-06T16:11:43Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Faith. What a concept. No, I believe it because of evidence. You reject that evidence. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/145 "2015-09-06T16:12:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Trying to leave a shitty camp is pretty normal behavior for refugees, and shouldn’t lead to horrors like suffocating inside a truck. Are people dying in the “shitty camps”? If not, then leaving looks like a riskier choice. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/146 "2015-09-06T16:13:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, I believe it because of evidence. You reject that evidence. You’re still to present any. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/147 "2015-09-06T16:16:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s actually a cite arguing NOT to leave your host country since that happened to people leaving Hungary for another country. And I don’t know why Terr chose Hungary. Is Hungary a country of first refuge for any of these folks? Didn’t they get to Hungary from another country where they were originally refugees? Because Hungary is in the news with these migrants clamoring to leave and get to Germany. How they got to Hungary - who knows, but they’re there. So then the question - what “horrors” in Hungary are they fleeing from? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/148 "2015-09-06T16:18:46Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Except those are not “refugees”. If you want to switch your argument to “needy people”, that’s a different argument. They are fleeing a civil/religious war. But you knew that. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/149 "2015-09-06T16:19:53Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Because Hungary is in the news with these migrants clamoring to leave and get to Germany. How they got to Hungary - who knows, but they’re there. So then the question - what “horrors” in Hungary are they fleeing from? Hunger? (I may be going to the hell that doesn’t exist for that one). ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/150 "2015-09-06T16:24:52Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > They are fleeing a civil/religious war. But you knew that. Is there a civil/religious war going on in Greece, Hungary, Czech republic, Slovakia or Macedonia? News to me. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/151 "2015-09-06T16:26:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > That’s actually a cite arguing NOT to leave your host country since that happened to people leaving Hungary for another country. And I don’t know why Terr chose Hungary. Is Hungary a country of first refuge for any of these folks? Didn’t they get to Hungary from another country where they were originally refugees? Hungary is in the way of other nations that would be more open to them. It is not their first choice for reasons the Hungarians are making very clear. > **[Dispatches: Why I Shared a Horrific Photo of a Drowned Syrian Child](https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/09/02/dispatches-why-i-shared-horrific-photo-drowned-syrian-child)** > > I thought long and hard before I retweeted the photo of 3-year-old Aylan Kurdi. It shows the lifeless toddler, lying face down on a popular Turkish beach, one of eleven Syrians who have almost certainly died as they tried to reach safety in... > [@](#): > > I am currently in Hungary, documenting the journeys of Syrian refugees, the very journey that today took another young life. It’s easy to blame the parents for exposing their son to such deadly danger, but only if you forget the barrel bombs and Islamic State (also known as ISIS) beheadings that they are fleeing. All morning yesterday at the Serbian-Hungarian border, I saw Syrian parents determinedly walking with their children – trying to remove them from the horrors of the slaughter in Syria, which have been allowed to continue for four years, and to the promise of security in Europe. Those parents are heroes; I admire their sheer determination to bring their children to a better life. > > Sadly, all along the journey, they are faced with hurdles and hostility. Some smugglers are so organized they even give receipts for their criminal business, but they care little for the lives of those they transport and make fortunes from. Their brutality may be expected, but what is inexcusable is the indifference and obstacles placed in their path by Europe’s leaders. > > Almost every Syrian I have interviewed has had a close brush with death on their journey, often involving sinking boats. Now, in Hungary, they find their path blocked again, with thousands made to sleep in the streets without any help from the Hungarian authorities. That is not what a host should do indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/152 "2015-09-06T16:28:04Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You’re still to present any. No. You are. I have presented you with a definition of the term “refugee” that contradicts your claims. You have so far failed to back up your claim that the Syrians are not refugees with anything. So if you want to keep working from baseless assertions you might stop looking down upon **iiandyiiii**. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/153 "2015-09-06T16:32:26Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > No. You are. I have presented you with a definition of the term “refugee” that contradicts your claims. No, it doesn’t. Someone fleeing from Syria to Turkey is definitely a refugee. That exact someone “fleeing” from Hungary to Germany is an economic migrant. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/154 "2015-09-06T16:33:41Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No, it doesn’t. Someone fleeing from Syria to Turkey is definitely a refugee. That exact someone “fleeing” from Hungary to Germany is an economic migrant. Can you back up that claim with a cite? Because the Geneva Convention on refugees seems to differ there. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/155 "2015-09-06T16:36:05Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Is there a civil/religious war going on in Greece, Hungary, Czech republic, Slovakia or Macedonia? News to me. More like ignorance and red herrings. Your original request was to tell you about the horrors the refugees are facing in Hungary, since you moved the goal posts you still failed to prevent the point from being valid[ as what is happening is that Hungary is not a helping hand, but no help at all for many of those refugees. That some ended dying in a truck is a direct result for their need to avoid the now hostile authorities. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/156 "2015-09-06T16:40:30Z")
> [@Hiker](#): > > Can you back up that claim with a cite? Because the Geneva Convention on refugees seems to differ there. No, it doesn’t. If you think that once you’re a “refugee”, you’re allowed by Geneva Convention to migrate to any country you want, you’re obviously wrong. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/157 "2015-09-06T16:41:49Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You’re still to present any. They say they are refugees, plus they are being persecuted and killed in their countries of origin. That is evidence they are refugees. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/158 "2015-09-06T16:43:04Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No, it doesn’t. If you think that once you’re a “refugee”, you’re allowed by Geneva Convention to migrate to any country you want, you’re obviously wrong. So now you think they are refugees? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/159 "2015-09-06T16:43:26Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > More like ignorance and red herrings. > > Your original request was to tell you about the horrors the refugees are facing in Hungary, since you moved the goal posts you still failed to prevent the point from being valid[ as what is happening is that Hungary is not a helping hand, but no help at all for many of those refugees. That some ended dying in a truck is a direct result for their need to avoid the now hostile authorities. The horrors of that truck was a result of their making a mistake of picking the smugglers to help them avoid bad economic conditions. Which makes them economic migrants, taken advantage of by the smugglers. There were cases of Mexican migrants suffocating in trucks being smuggled into the US. Does that mean that all Mexicans should be welcomed to the US as “refugees”? Because that’s your logic, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909/160 "2015-09-06T16:44:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So now you think they are refugees? When they flee from Syria/Libya, they are refugees. I believe I said that several times in this thread. When they flee from Turkey, Greece, Hungary, Serbia etc. they are economic migrants. Glad I can make it clearer for you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-immigration-whats-to-be-done/729909.md?page=9)