# Mass Shooting in Thousand Oaks, CA **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 8, 2018, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182 "2018-11-08T08:22:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182/21 "2018-11-08T15:41:15Z")
6 off-duty LEOs in the building during the shooting. At least one specifically cited as “standing in front of people to protect them” according to sources. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182/22 "2018-11-08T15:52:30Z")
> [@WolfpackJeep](#): > > a former Marine. Ex-military again. ---
**Author:** ![Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/section_maker_jupe/32/1424_2.png) [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Section_Maker_Jupe)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182/23 "2018-11-08T16:11:06Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > 6 off-duty LEOs in the building during the shooting. At least one specifically cited as “standing in front of people to protect them” according to sources. from MSNBC CNN One of the first sheriffs to confront the shooter was hit multiple times and died. They dont wait for SWAT under new training after Columbine etc . They just charge. Those LEOs are heroes. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182/24 "2018-11-08T16:21:34Z")
> [@Section\_Maker\_Jupe](#): > > from MSNBC CNN > One of the first sheriffs to confront the shooter was hit multiple times and died. They dont wait for SWAT under new training after Columbine etc . They just charge. Those LEOs are heroes. And the politicians that allow this are villains. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182/25 "2018-11-08T16:29:12Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Early witness statements say the gunman reloaded at least once, was “very skilled” as a shooter (not spraying bullets everywhere), and used smoke devices to disorient the crowd. > > Is it bad that my second response this morning (after “Oh, fuck”) was “I hope the shooter is white”? What difference does it make to the victims? If I were laying bleeding to death from a gunshot wound, I doubt the last thought to go through my mind would be “Oh well, at least it was a white guy who shot me! That makes this so much better!” ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182/26 "2018-11-08T16:49:08Z")
To the victims, not a whit. To everybody else, a lot, because it deprives Trump and the rest of the bigots of a handy brown person to blame for everything. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182/27 "2018-11-08T16:52:43Z")
I tried looking up “Ian David Long” on Fast People Search. No Ian appears, but there’s a “Jan D Long”, aged 28, who lives (lived?) in Newbury Park. I’ve looked at his address in Google Street View, and there’s a pickup truck in his driveway with many stickers on it. Unfortunately, the resolution isn’t good enough to read the stickers when I zoom in. Several past addresses in Kaneohe, Hawaii, a military town. I think this is him. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182/28 "2018-11-08T17:10:35Z")
A reminder to all participants to mind [the rules of these threads](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=778315). This is not the place for political potshots. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182/29 "2018-11-08T19:09:54Z")
What surprises me is the lethality. Apparently he killed everybody he shot. (I heard that the other injuries were not related to gunshots). I would have expected with a gun that I understand is not automatic and needed to be reloaded that there would be some people shot non-fatally. Was he using particularly lethal bullets or was he just an excellent shot? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182/30 "2018-11-08T19:22:15Z")
He used a .45 cal semi-automatic handgun with extended magazines. That round was designed to stop crazed Moros charging at you, so it is very lethal. We don’t know if he was using any special ammo, but it sounds to me like he took his time and made accurate center-of-mass or head shots. He reloaded at least once, so he might have hit every fatality multiple times. We just don’t know at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182/31 "2018-11-08T20:16:49Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > He used a .45 cal semi-automatic handgun with extended magazines. **That round was designed to stop crazed Moros charging at you** , so it is very lethal. I’m confused by the bolded sentence: .45 cal bullets were designed to stop crazed Filipino Muslims charging at me? That seems a highly specific and somewhat unlikely factoid, IMO. Or did you mean a crazed old Greek god of impending doom that was charging at me? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182/32 "2018-11-08T20:28:41Z")
Per wiki: _After the example of the Cavalry, the Army in turn had fielded versions of double-action revolvers in .38 Long Colt. It was eventually evaluated that the .38-caliber round was significantly less effective in overall stopping-power than the .45 Colt against determined opponents in cases such as the Moro juramentado warriors, who were encountered in the Moro Rebellion.[3][4][5][6] The then-current issue rifle, the .30-40 Krag, had also failed to stop Moro warriors effectively;[7] the British had similar lack-of-stopping-power issues switching to the .303 British, which resulted in the development of the dum-dum bullet in an attempt to compensate for the round’s deficiencies. This experience, and the Thompson–LaGarde Tests of 1904 led the Army and the Cavalry, to decide a minimum of .45 caliber was required in a new handgun. Thompson and Major Louis Anatole La Garde of the Medical Corps arranged tests on cadavers and animal remains in the Chicago stockyards, **resulting in the finding that .45 was the most effective pistol cartridge**._ Large, slow bullets that make large holes in things. Not _you_ specifically, but you as in _the whole of people what are being attacked_. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182/33 "2018-11-08T20:30:52Z")
The video of the slain sheriff sergeant being transported to the coroner along streets lined with respectful citizens just made my wife cry. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182/34 "2018-11-08T20:34:01Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I’m confused by the bolded sentence: .45 cal bullets were designed to stop crazed Filipino Muslims charging at me? That seems a highly specific and somewhat unlikely factoid, IMO. Or did you mean a crazed old Greek god of impending doom that was charging at me? > > :dubious: That’s pretty much the story. > [@](#): > > Referring to the battle in his Annual Report to the War Department for 1902, Major General Adna Chaffee the Philippine Department Commander underscored the weakness of the .38 caliber Colt, Òit failed to stop Moros unless it struck them in a vital spotÓ, and urged the immediate adoption of a heavier caliber sidearm. Chaffee’s complaint had been echoed by a flurry of personal letters that came from within the Army, War Department and the Bureau of Ordinance, usually in much stronger and saltier language, substantiating the inadequacy of the .38. One story in particular was told time and time again of an incident during an expedition by (then) Captain John J. Pershing: > > Perhaps the most dramatic moment of the Maciu campaign came when two infantry companies were carefully advancing toward a cotta through the six-foot-high cogon grass. Suddenly, a powerfully built Moro jumped from hiding and charged, swinging a kampilan (a long, double-edged, two-handed sword) like a scythe. He nearly lopped off the arm of one scout before charging into the main skirmish line of men some 30Ð40 yards away. It took seven bullets to his torso to finally stop him dead in his tracks. The attacker turned out to be Sultan Cabugatan of Maciu. Pershing noted in tribute that he was “the last of a long line who had always fought the Christians. He had held out against us, I think, purely as a matter of principle and he vindicated his courage in his death.” > > ``` > The US Army's Moro Campaigns ended up lasting more than a decade, from 1903-1913. One of the most famous of the Moros, Panglima Hassan a Tausug war leader, was cornered and refused to surrender. Singly, Hassan rushed the American line with only his barong, cutting up a soldier and two officers before being brought down. "It was determined that thirty-two Krag bullets hit Hassan before a last bullet from a sergeant's revolver [an old Peacemaker] plugged him dead between the eyes." > > ``` [Cite](http://www.morolandhistory.com/related%20articles/legend%20of%20.45.htm). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182/35 "2018-11-08T20:40:49Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Per wiki: > > _After the example of the Cavalry, the Army in turn had fielded versions of double-action revolvers in .38 Long Colt. It was eventually evaluated that the .38-caliber round was significantly less effective in overall stopping-power than the .45 Colt against determined opponents in cases such as the Moro juramentado warriors, who were encountered in the Moro Rebellion.[3][4][5][6] The then-current issue rifle, the .30-40 Krag, had also failed to stop Moro warriors effectively;[7] the British had similar lack-of-stopping-power issues switching to the .303 British, which resulted in the development of the dum-dum bullet in an attempt to compensate for the round’s deficiencies. This experience, and the Thompson–LaGarde Tests of 1904 led the Army and the Cavalry, to decide a minimum of .45 caliber was required in a new handgun. Thompson and Major Louis Anatole La Garde of the Medical Corps arranged tests on cadavers and animal remains in the Chicago stockyards, **resulting in the finding that .45 was the most effective pistol cartridge**._ > > Large, slow bullets that make large holes in things. Not _you_ specifically, but you as in _the whole of people what are being attacked_. > [@Shodan](#): > > That’s pretty much the story. > [Cite](http://www.morolandhistory.com/related%20articles/legend%20of%20.45.htm). > > Regards, > Shodan Well I’ll be ddamned! Thanks for the cites, y’all. I had never head the term “Moros” (as in _the Moro people_) before this thread; now I know what it means. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182/36 "2018-11-08T20:57:50Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > What surprises me is the lethality. Apparently he killed everybody he shot. (I heard that the other injuries were not related to gunshots). I would have expected with a gun that I understand is not automatic and needed to be reloaded that there would be some people shot non-fatally. Was he using particularly lethal bullets or was he just an excellent shot? Since no one has addressed the automatic part of this, whether the gun firing the round is automatic, semi-automatic or a revolver the round is the same. In close quarters like it seems this was, being hit by a .45 caliber round would be pretty lethal, whether fired from an automatic, a semi-automatic or a revolver. His rate of fire would change, but not the lethality of the round. Sounds to me as if he was taking careful, aimed fire instead of spray and pray, which probably accounts for the number of folks killed instead of just wounded. Just fucking wonderful. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182/37 "2018-11-08T21:22:42Z")
The Glock is a semi-auto, by the way. To the best of my knowledge, the extended mag is illegal in California. But what isn’t? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182/38 "2018-11-08T21:25:50Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > The Glock is a semi-auto, by the way. To the best of my knowledge, the extended mag is illegal in California. But what isn’t? I believe that you can’t exceed 10 rounds in a magazine in California, but it’s hard to keep up with all the regulations they have there. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182/39 "2018-11-08T21:33:45Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > What surprises me is the lethality. Apparently he killed everybody he shot. (I heard that the other injuries were not related to gunshots). I would have expected with a gun that I understand is not automatic and needed to be reloaded that there would be some people shot non-fatally. Was he using particularly lethal bullets or was he just an excellent shot? He was using .45 caliber bullets, which have always been intended to stop/kill full grown adult male humans and being ex-military presumably was familiar and comfortable with weapons and trained in their use against fellow human beings. Given that the place was crowded and his targets/victims at close range no, it’s not surprising how lethal the situation was. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2018, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182/40 "2018-11-09T00:45:03Z")
And now there’s a major brush fire in the area. The highway (101) is closed. That poor community. My sister lives in TO. I’m going to call her tonight. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-thousand-oaks-ca/824182.md?page=3)