# Mass Shooting in UK - 12 killed **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 2, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-uk-12-killed/541668 "2010-06-02T16:59:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fake_Tales_of_San_Francisco)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-uk-12-killed/541668/21 "2010-06-03T10:13:59Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > Interesting that even with Great Britian’s very tough and stringent gun control laws, something like this still happens. Can’t legislate rational sane behavior. I dunno why this even needs to be pointed out. Besides the fact that he used weapons that are actually available anyway, this really isn’t the time to point and say “hah hah, your gun control isn’t working.” That’s probably not what you’re doing, but that’s what it kind of comes across like to me. - North West Englander. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-uk-12-killed/541668/22 "2010-06-03T10:38:59Z")
My brother and his family live just a few miles from where this happened, and he works at Sellafield, where they closed the gates yesterday because the guy passed close by during his rampage (although bro wasn’t there at the time). Last week they had that fatal school bus crash, and they’re still getting over the devastating flood in Novemeber. I said to him, what next, a plague of locusts? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-uk-12-killed/541668/23 "2010-06-03T11:29:24Z")
> [@si\_blakely](#): > > Current reports indicate a shotgun and a .22 rifle. > > It seems he shot his twin brother and the family solicitor in a dispute over a will, then attacked taxi drivers at a cab stand (there are indications of another dispute with fellow taxi drivers), and then set out on a random killing spree before killing himself. He was very deliberate in his actions, calling one of his victims over to his car before shooting. It’s really sad, because it is possible that the escalation after the family related and taxi related killings was an attempt to force a lethal response by police, or to drive up his own self-loathing preparatory to suicide. We will probably never know. > > Si If he wanted suicde by cop he could easily have found it at sellafield ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2010, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-uk-12-killed/541668/24 "2010-06-03T12:13:01Z")
I read one report that he lived with his mother, and she is currently very (terminally?) ill. My WAG would be that he’s been caring for her for a few years while she’s been in decline - and therefore felt he was owed the lion’s share of the will. Possibly his twin brother was challenging this and insisting on 50:50, despite not having shared the burden of care. If the house was in his mother’s name, and his brother was insisting it was sold to release 50% of the capital, then you could see how it could push someone over the edge. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-uk-12-killed/541668/25 "2010-06-07T02:15:16Z")
And of course, as with most things, there’s a Thai connection. He was one of the sleazos who hang out regularly in Pattaya, aka Sin City. See [here](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7804894/Cumbria-shootings-Derrick-Bird-deported-home-after-drunken-airport-row.html). Also: [Hooked on a Hooker](http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3001154/Mass-murderer-Derrick-Bird-hid-an-obsession-with-a-young-Thai-prostitute.html) and [Gunman’s Thai Hookers Sex Film](http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2999923/Gunmans-Thai-hookers-sex-film.html) ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-uk-12-killed/541668/26 "2010-06-07T02:18:27Z")
Lol, sam, have you completely abandoned your pricniples? Let’s face it he was just a typical middle class bloke going over there for a shag. This is just sensationalistic bullshit. Think man! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-uk-12-killed/541668/27 "2010-06-07T02:23:43Z")
I honestly cannot stand Pattaya. It’s too sleazy even for the likes of me. That Austrian who kept his daughter in the secret dungeon beneath his home and even fathered children by her? He was a Pattaya regular, too. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-uk-12-killed/541668/28 "2010-06-07T02:36:20Z")
> [@Wallenstein](#): > > No, handguns are hard to own, but lots of people (especially in rural areas) have shotguns and/or .22 rifles. There are reasonably strict checks for ownership, but lots of everyday folk own shotguns and will keep them at home. It wouldn’t have been at all difficult to get hold of a shotgun even if he didn’t already own one, particularly in the region he lived in. In England it isn’t difficult to have a pistol – it’s impossible. It’s difficult to have a pistol in Ireland, and I don’t know what it’s like to have a pistol on wales, although I assume it’s closer tp England than Ireland. > [@Wilbo523](#): > > Interesting that even with Great Britian’s very tough and stringent gun control laws, something like this still happens. Can’t legislate rational sane behavior. Goes without saying, man. This kind of guy would’ve used his car, or a knife, if he didn’t have a gun, because he was a crazy bastard. That said, I think you’re trying to make the anti-GC argument in a thread that shouldn’t involve that. > [@Wallenstein](#): > > Without wanting to necessarily go down this line of discussion, while it’s certainly true that gun laws won’t stop every event like this, we in the UK have had 3 mass shootings since WW2 in a nation of 60 million, which suggests things are about right. > > I guess you could compare that to the number of shootings in the last 10 yrs in the USA, with much more liberal gun laws and a larger population, and it doesn’t look like the UK necessarily needs to change anything. > > Ultimately there are “trying to prove a negative” arguments on both sides - it’s hard to prove how many events like this were prevented by UK gun control laws (i.e. someone thought about going on a rampage but couldn’t get their hands on a gun), but by the same token it’s hard to prove how many similar events were stopped by the threat of an armed public in the USA. > > Either way this is a very unusual situation in the UK and we’re not really sure how to deal with it. I honestly don’t thonk there’s anything to “deal with.” I mean, it’s not my country, so I can’t make definite determinations… But the guys dead, no? What more can you do? Also, comparing the US to the UKs gun crime or gun killing spree rate is nonsensical, because by any measure, the US (as a whole) has a higher corm rate (except rape, burglary and home invasion). However, when you factor out NY, LA, Detroit and a few other ultra hog crime areas, the statistics change quite a bit. Most of the USA is a blissfully peaceful place. > [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](#): > > I dunno why this even needs to be pointed out. Besides the fact that he used weapons that are actually available anyway, this really isn’t the time to point and say “hah hah, your gun control isn’t working.” That’s probably not what you’re doing, but that’s what it kind of comes across like to me. > > - North West Englander. It comes across like it to me, too, and I’m pro gun. - Midwest American There are a lot of preventable crimes, and a lot of ways that corms can be averted, but nut jobs going on killing sprees are going to happen, period. It’s sad, and there’s really very little that can be done about it. If you make all guns disappear, and you won’t, they’ll use knives, bats or cars (or zip guns), and if you magically make those disappear, they’ll use crowbars and machetes and mallets. Crazy asshole murders are going to be murders, no matter what you do. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-uk-12-killed/541668/29 "2010-06-07T02:38:07Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I honestly cannot stand Pattaya. It’s too sleazy even for the likes of me. > > That Austrian who kept his daughter in the secret dungeon beneath his home and even fathered children by her? He was a Pattaya regular, too. You need to understand afther’s limited time ocer there. Bang for buck. ((Like his shotgun. Lol.) ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-uk-12-killed/541668/30 "2010-06-07T02:40:36Z")
I am so sorry this happened to an area of England that is already struggling. Those poor people and their families. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-uk-12-killed/541668/31 "2010-06-07T02:42:42Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > You need to understand afther’s limited time ocer there. Bang for buck. > > ((Like his shotgun. Lol.) Oooooh. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-uk-12-killed/541668/32 "2010-06-07T02:48:47Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I am so sorry this happened to an area of England that is already struggling. Those poor people and their families. ☹ Ms. Rigby, Not sure who you’ve been listening to but Cumbria ain’t doing worse than England as a whole. Of course for many southerners Cumbria is known as two things. 1. Fucking cunts sitting around in tailvans on bridges over M6 2. Westmoreland Farm Shops (yum!) Oh yeah, lake district blah de blah Anyway that was satirical in drunk way which would only make sense to tiny number of people. But rest assured Cumbria’s alright, only bad thing I can think of at all locally to it recently was Carlisle floods, and really that isn’t at all related to this area… tis big ( in a british way… small in US way)… Great in general 🙂 anyway carry on 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-uk-12-killed/541668/33 "2010-06-07T05:13:29Z")
> [@Happy\_Poster](#): > > Of course for many southerners Cumbria is known as two things. > > 1. Fucking cunts sitting around in tailvans on bridges over M6 _Moderating_ Sir, please step away from the keyboard. **Happy Poster** , I know there’s a dialectical difference and that the C-bomb isn’t as big a deal in BrE, but you really need to cool it here. For the Straight Dope, Spectre of Pithecanthropus ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-uk-12-killed/541668/34 "2010-06-07T09:24:51Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I am so sorry this happened to an area of England that is already struggling. Those poor people and their families. Cumbria’s not struggling. Carlisle was flooded a while ago, but is mostly fine now, and the flooding was limited to only a small part of Cumbria anyway. (Was at a wedding in Carlisle on Saturday). ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-uk-12-killed/541668/35 "2010-06-07T09:47:07Z")
Carlisle was not the worst affected in November. Keswick, Cockermouth, Workington and other towns close to where the shootings happened were very badly hit. Many road bridges in the county were destroyed or severely damaged, causing traffic problems for months. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-uk-12-killed/541668/36 "2010-06-08T02:44:11Z")
Well, ok then. I take back my sympathy for Cumbria and ALL of UK, especially northern England, which has been economically strained in recent years, and vocal about its economic woes. :rolleyes: And my use of the word “poor” referred strictly to those traumatized by this rampage. Or maybe I shouldn’t say anything nice about them, either. So much for British graciousness. Damned Limeys…\ we won the war for you…\ ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-uk-12-killed/541668/37 "2010-06-08T09:39:06Z")
I trust that that is not directed at me. Although certain other comments were indeed [del]drunken ramblings[/del] ungracious. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-uk-12-killed/541668/38 "2010-06-08T14:18:47Z")
> [@Wilbo523](#): > > Interesting that even with Great Britian’s very tough and stringent gun control laws, something like this still happens. Can’t legislate rational sane behavior. Our gun laws aren’t that strict if a cabbie can own 2. there are a couple of million legally held guns. A relative of mine owns one and he’s a psycho who threatened his father with one when drunk but he still has his licence. I guarantee we’ll be reading about him one day. To own a shotgun or .22 legally just involves coming up with a specious excuse like ‘vermin killing’ and being able to point at a lockable gun case. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-uk-12-killed/541668/39 "2010-06-08T16:52:30Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Our gun laws aren’t that strict if a cabbie can own 2. there are a couple of million legally held guns. > > A relative of mine owns one and he’s a psycho who threatened his father with one when drunk but he still has his licence. > > I guarantee we’ll be reading about him one day. > > To own a shotgun or .22 legally just involves coming up with a specious excuse like ‘vermin killing’ and being able to point at a lockable gun case. You also need the permission of a landowner, or your own land, a sufficient distance away from a road. You need to allow the police to make random inspections upon you at any time. The case has to meet specific standards, not just “be lockable”. It ain’t that much of a free for all. And then you can’t just carry it around… actually that’s far more of a restriction, truth be told. In fact you’re even supposed to keep it in said cabinet. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shooting-in-uk-12-killed/541668/40 "2010-06-08T16:58:42Z")
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