# Mass shootings at mosques in New Zealand **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 15, 2019, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169 "2019-03-15T04:15:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/221 "2019-03-18T16:21:36Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Well, yeah - but then you also seem to think _Mein Kampf_ can make a good book club recommendation…😃 We all make mistakes, it was that or “Wuthering Heights” and I made a bad call. Those canapes went completely untouched. I confess it isn’t a page turner, the sub-text is a little too obvious and unfortunately we all how it ends but it is hugely important work. To fully understand the rise of National Socialism it is required reading. I’ll go out on a limb and say that it shouldn’t be banned, even Germany haven’t done that, (I believe they have some experience of how that pans out). Do you think it should be banned? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/222 "2019-03-18T16:54:32Z")
The posts by asahi and others on free speech are reminiscent of the mindset that ultimately turned the French and Russian Revolutions from truly noble social experiments to repressive Orwellian nightmares. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/223 "2019-03-18T17:03:58Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > it is hugely important work. No, it really isn’t. > [@](#): > > To fully understand the rise of National Socialism it is required reading. Naah, pass. I understand the rise of Hitler perfectly fine, thanks. > [@](#): > > Do you think it should be banned? No. But then I don’t consider pre-War racist, fascist drivel on the same order of utterance as active modern Holocaust denial or other hate speech. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/224 "2019-03-18T17:18:25Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > We all make mistakes, it was that or “Wuthering Heights” and I made a bad call. Those canapes went completely untouched. > > I confess it isn’t a page turner, the sub-text is a little too obvious and unfortunately we all how it ends but it is hugely important work. To fully understand the rise of National Socialism it is required reading. > > I’ll go out on a limb and say that it shouldn’t be banned, even Germany haven’t done that, (I believe they have some experience of how that pans out). > > Do you think it should be banned? Heh. Do you suppose in 2081 someone will post to a message board that _The Art of the Deal_ is required reading for the understanding of the rise of Trumpism [sic]? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/225 "2019-03-18T17:18:25Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > The posts by asahi and others on free speech are reminiscent of the mindset that ultimately turned the French and Russian Revolutions from truly noble social experiments to repressive Orwellian nightmares. Actually the point I made does take into account what Karl Popper and Godwin ([Yes, that Godwin](https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a56987/godwin-law-charlottesville-nazis/)) said. [https://www.libertarianism.org/prototype/one-year-after-charlottesvilles-unite-right-riots-following-karl-popper-we-should-tolerate](https://www.libertarianism.org/prototype/one-year-after-charlottesvilles-unite-right-riots-following-karl-popper-we-should-tolerate) > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > “Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.—In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal.” > > … > > Proving this requires a close textual reading, which means we have to note Popper’s precise language. At the outset, the philosopher makes clear that he is focusing not on tolerance—which is generally regarded as a virtue in open societies—but specifically on “unlimited tolerance.” [The emphasis is mine.] As he puts it, “I do not imply […] that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies.” Only when “incitement to intolerance and persecution” happens should we treat the utterance as criminal, he explains. And it’s Popper’s use of “incitement” here that links his thought helpfully to First Amendment theory. Yes, there is a need for free speech of even ideas that most consider to be bad, however, do not expect others to remain silent and to not demand that the intolerant stop reaching for the sticks and stones. ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/226 "2019-03-18T17:40:06Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Other countries are allowed to see things differently. They believe the spreading of hate is a danger to their nations. Don’t pretend speech isn’t regulated in any way in the US, that’s untrue. Other societies have slightly different values and see firearms and hate speech as sufficiently dangerous as to require regulation. They have simply drawn the lines in slightly different places concerning both issues. > > You’re certainly entitled to rail against any variation from the American Way, of course. But the entire world can see clearly the state of your nation. And that speaks louder, I’m afraid. Point well taken on firearms. I don’t know what the rest of this is supposed to mean. The US is a model for much of the world in how Muslims can for the most part coexist with other beliefs and cultures. There was a spasm where some manipulative spambot material that factored into the 2016 election was not regulated as promptly as it should have been by the likes of Facebook. It’s not immediately obvious to me what our valuing free speech has to do with the main problems we face right now, executive branch abuses. Freedom of speech in some ways is acting as a bulwark against the worsening of these abuses. Some odious characters here carrying recessive genes of right wing thought that had laid dormant for a long time did come out of the woodwork in 2015-2016. And, all in all they haven’t coalesced into too much as far as united movements. It’s a bit more acceptable to kowtow to conspiracy and prejudice for some elected officials and I’d like if they were replaced by voters as much as possible. What you’re mostly left with as threats are radicalized individuals, and that is hardly unique to us. You have relatively unregulated internet in your country as well which has played a part in individuals like [Alek Minassian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_van_attack) going on killing sprees, and I’m sure people in some parts of the world are appalled by that. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/227 "2019-03-18T17:45:52Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Heh. Do you suppose in 2081 someone will post to a message board that _The Art of the Deal_ is required reading for the understanding of the rise of Trumpism [sic]? ooooo! christ let’s hope not. No-one needs that. I suspect Trump is an ugly orange blip (blimp?) rather than a precursor to a major atrocity. He’ll be remembered as a fashion error like rah-rah skirts and lawn flamingos. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/228 "2019-03-18T17:51:07Z")
That Hitch video is one I hadn’t seen before. Might now be my favorite. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/229 "2019-03-18T17:55:17Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Well, if a cake maker can be made to set aside his personal beliefs and provide service for a cause he doesn’t agree with… Y’know, that’s a good point and I’m going to have to think about it. It might make a good debate thread: Is refusing to make public space available to a racist/bigot/etc. the same as refusing to make a wedding cake for a homosexual couple? Both actions are, presumably, the result of refusing to do something because it goes against your principles and implies support of something you reject. On the other hand, the first is refusing to support a form of hate, and the other is refusing to support for reasons of hate. Is this a case of situational ethics? Am I basing my position off of my personal prejudices? Definitely have to go off and think about this one. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/230 "2019-03-18T20:20:12Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > The posts by asahi and others on free speech are reminiscent of the mindset that ultimately turned the French and Russian Revolutions from truly noble social experiments to repressive Orwellian nightmares. …Orwellian nightmares? LOL. You want to ban Muslims from entering America. You literally want to stop people coming to your country because of what they think, who they worship, how they dress. I can’t imagine anything more Orwellian than that. Get off your fucking high horse. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/231 "2019-03-18T21:35:39Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > “called out” is fine. The correct reaction to false claims are solid facts and strong arguments. So if that is what you mean then I agree. Giving legal protection to someone’s right to say something objectionable is not the same as saying they should be protected from all consequences of saying it. People can create their own information bubbles, particularly online. The first step toward committing terrorism is to dehumanize the perceived enemy. It won’t matter whether people call them out or not because the racists will seek and find each other, and reinforce their own sick worldview. The problem is, there’s little that their victims can do to defend themselves from this kind of demonization except to hope that nobody actually takes their hatred to the next level and commits violence – we’ve seen how that works, which is not well. It’s no coincidence that those who have this great philosophical admiration for the absolutist view of free speech are generally themselves white. It’s easy to be favor a philosophical view when you’re not the ones dealing with the consequences. What’s striking is that in almost every Western country I can think of, including the United States - no, especially the United States - there are laws against providing material support to terrorists. Those laws include producing propaganda. Those laws even include translating propaganda for English audiences, regardless of whether or not the translator identifies as a terrorist. Such laws might even conceivably include prohibitions on distributing their content. There are variants of these laws in most countries, and they were passed with narry a fuss because they target “terrorists” – in short, Muslims. It’s an acknowledgement that some ideas are so extreme that they become dangerous and politically destabilizing. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Who appears to be a racist twat of the highest order and deserved everything he gets up to the point of physical harm. What he should get is a wave of response that sweeps him out of power, not a muzzle and not a jail cell. I wasn’t necessarily arguing that his rhetoric rises to the level of criminal conduct, but it’s abhorrent, and the real problem that it reveals is that there is one standard of conduct for the white majority, and a standard for everyone else. In our own country, for example, we’ve just seen how vulnerable someone like Rep. Ilhan Omar is to charges of antisemitism. To be clear, I’ve agreed that her rhetoric needed to be confronted - that’s not the point. The point is that someone like Omar or other minorities can’t exercise their free speech rights in the same way that someone like Fraser Anning, or Geert Wilders, or Steve King because they represent one faction within a majority that, while not constituting a majority of the voting population, is nevertheless strong enough politically to ensure that it has a voice that can still be heard, regardless of how repugnant the other 51-70% of us find them. Intolerance and racial antipathy in any form is bad, but going back to the infamous Huey Freeman threads, I reiterate what I said then, which is that understanding and defining racism isn’t just about knowing the language of racism, but also reckoning with its real-world power. History teaches us that, in reality, ethnic majorities, the majority tribes if you will, make rules with themselves in mind, and they establish their own sets of standards that everyone else has to live by. For that reason, we occasionally need artificial boundaries in place to protect everyone else against their abuses of power. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > This is where I disagree most. Allowing speech you agree with is trivially easy. It takes no effort, no intellectual courage and shows no actual commitment to the concept of free speech. The stuff you disagree with is the most important to protect and the hardest to bring ourselves to do. Speech I disagree with is one thing; speech that encourages dangerous behavior is quite another. You’ll never get me to agree that there’s social value in protecting the rhetoric of an Adolf Hitler or ISIS. Sure, there’s a danger that some autocrat come come along later and change the meaning of “hate speech” to include anyone who hates a regime, but overly-broad interpretations of free speech won’t prevent tyrannical power grabs, either (nor will their gun collection). So-called “libertarians” (typically right-leaning) miss the point when they propose that liberty means that we should protect hate speech, because what they’re missing is that by tolerating hate speech, you’re also tolerate speech that is essentially anti-freedom, anti-libertarian. The more a society tolerates hate speech, the more it actually engenders the destruction of freedom. There is nobody who espouses racial animus who can claim to be libertarian- at all. Racial intolerance necessarily, absolutely, always means that someone else’s freedom is deprived. This is what minorities have understood from the very beginning, and what whites - even people who consider themselves ‘modern’, ‘moderate’ and ‘tolerate’ - find it very difficult to understand, for the simple reason that they’ve never had to live on the other side of liberty. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/232 "2019-03-18T22:43:11Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > You literally want to stop people coming to your country because of what they think, who they worship, how they dress. That’s a fair point. I’ll have to mull that one. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2019, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/233 "2019-03-18T23:36:47Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > That’s a fair point. I’ll have to mull that one. Out of curiosity: do you want to stop folks who are already here from doing those things, or do you only want to stop folks who do those things from coming here? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/234 "2019-03-19T00:02:30Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Out of curiosity: do you want to stop folks who are already here from doing those things, or do you only want to stop folks who do those things from coming here? Banquet Bear’s very trenchant point is making me reconsider whether I really want to do either, if I’m going to be consistent about my principles. But it was never more than the latter. Although I do always wonder about women who appear to be living a “Handmaid’s Tale” existence, and if there’s some way to offer them sanctuary if they want to get away from that way of life. Then there’s the whole question of whether they can “really” consent to living that second-class existence, or if they’ve basically been brainwashed. But we’re all “brainwashed” by our families and the culture we grow up in. It’s thorny. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/235 "2019-03-19T00:32:33Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I’m not talking about “mass shooting.” **I’m talking about the reality of “living while brown” in a world that increasingly has to deal with the reality of militant white supremacy.** Oh puh-leeze… you’re dancing on the graves of 50 dead countrymen so that you can portray yourself as a victim too. If that mass-shooting didn’t happen none of your woe-is-me-too rhetoric would have a voice right now. I can’t stop you lying to yourself but I’m not buying it. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > **I have no intention of trying to change Slacker.** I have every intention of shining a light on his bigotry. \ blah blah blah > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > You literally want to stop people coming to your country because of what they think, who they worship, how they dress. I can’t imagine anything more Orwellian than that. **Get off your fucking high horse.** You’re in denial. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/236 "2019-03-19T01:47:23Z")
> [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](#): > > Oh puh-leeze… you’re dancing on the graves of 50 dead countrymen so that you can portray yourself as a victim too. If that mass-shooting didn’t happen none of your woe-is-me-too rhetoric would have a voice right now. I can’t stop you lying to yourself but I’m not buying it. …fuck off. I’ve been fighting for social justice for a very long time. I’ve been highlighting the rise of the alt-right, the rise of white supremacy, the dangers of normalizing rhetoric coming from arseholes like Slacker, all the time on these boards. Just look me up. I’m not “playing the victim.” That you’ve dedicated more time in this thread ranting at me than at a self-admitted racist and hater of Islam says everything we need to know about you. > [@](#): > > You’re in denial. And you are a fucking idiot. Slacker is in no fucking position to lecture us on “freedom of expression.” Even he isn’t as stupid as you. Even someone as profoundly stupid as Slacker has realized that his belief that Muslim’s shouldn’t be allowed into America is in conflict with his belief in “free-speech absolutism”. Even Slacker is not as stupid as you. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/237 "2019-03-19T02:11:29Z")
> [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](#): > > Oh puh-leeze… you’re dancing on the graves of 50 dead countrymen so that you can portray yourself as a victim too. If that mass-shooting didn’t happen none of your woe-is-me-too rhetoric would have a voice right now. I can’t stop you lying to yourself but I’m not buying it. > > You’re in denial. Why would you post this? It just seems callous. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/238 "2019-03-19T03:08:50Z")
…in other shooting related news: The New Zealand Government has moved quickly to declare new gun control restrictions, those restrictions will get broad bi-partisan support from all the political parties, many gun-shop owners, hunters, farmers and even gun lobbyists have come out in support of change. Thanks to our Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC), our socialised medical system, and a compassionate government those who died in the shooting will get their funerals paid for and families will be looked after for a few years at least. Those that are still in hospital won’t have to pay a cent out of pocket. The people have raised at least 8 million dollars for victims of the shooting in a variety of different campaigns. Many media have been scrubbing from their archives blatantly racist and islamophobic content. Many Muslim, Maori, Pacific Islanders, have been telling and sharing their stories of their encounters with white supremacist and the alt-right over the last five years. Finally people are starting to pay attention. Spark, Vodafone, 2 Degrees, 3 competing companies have joined together to block access to sites that host the video footage taken by the gunman. They have written an open letter that says: > [@Spark](#): > > “We call on Facebook, Twitter and Google, whose platforms carry so much content, to be a part of an urgent discussion at an industry and New Zealand Government level on an enduring solution to this issue.” The big banks: ASB, TSB, Westpac, BNZ, ANZ and Kiwibank have all suspended advertising with these social media giants. We can’t allow these fuckers to win. > [@Mahvash Ali](#): > > A mother looked intently at the mosque as she said one of the men who died inside was the son of a couple who ran her daughter’s childcare centre. > > "He hasn’t made us weaker, "she said. > > So here’s the upshot, and it gives me much satisfaction to tell you, dear terrorist, you have failed. > > Deans Ave was a sea of white European faces, grieving with the Muslims. > > The Maori haka that reverberated through Hagley Park was deafening. > > You watch on Friday, dear terrorist, Muslims will come out to pray - they will come in their thousands. And there will be those who will stand beside us to protect us. They will stand between your grotesque ideology and the worshipers. > > When those caskets are lifted, watch as everyone takes a turn to give them a shoulder. > > There are women who will don the Hijab in solidarity with their Muslim sisters this week. We will all look the same, because we are all the same. > > So you may have created hell for now, but watch as New Zealand responds. You shall go down in history as an animal. > > And here’s a personal message. New Zealand is my home and I am not leaving. I am a proud Muslim from Pakistan, but I will be a Kiwi forever. > **[I am a proud Muslim from Pakistan, but I will be a Kiwi forever](https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/03/opinion-i-am-a-proud-muslim-from-pakistan-but-i-will-be-a-kiwi-forever.html)** > > You, terrorist, have failed. Just watch how New Zealand responds, writes Mahvash Ali. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/239 "2019-03-19T03:40:05Z")
…from Jacinda’s speech this afternoon: > [@Prime Minister of New Zealand](#): > > And in this role, I wanted to speak directly to the families. We cannot know your grief, but we can walk with you at every stage. We can. And we will, surround you with aroha, manaakitanga and all that makes us, us. Our hearts are heavy but our spirit is strong. > > … > > Naeem Rashid, originally from Pakistan, died after rushing at the terrorist and trying to wrestle the gun from him. He lost his life trying to save those who were worshipping alongside him. > > Abdul Aziz, originally from Afghanistan, confronted and faced down the armed terrorist after grabbing the nearest thing to hand – a simple eftpos machine. He risked his life and no doubt saved many with his selfless bravery. > > … > > There is a huge focus on ensuring the needs of families are met. That has to be our priority. A community welfare centre has been set up near the hospital in Christchurch to make sure people know how to access support. > > Visas for family members overseas are being prioritised so that they can attend funerals. Funeral costs are covered, and we have moved quickly to ensure that this includes repatriation costs for any family members who would like to move their loved ones away from New Zealand. > > We are working to provide mental health and social support. The 1737 number yesterday received roughly 600 texts or phonecalls. They are on average lasting around 40 minutes, and I encourage anyone in need to reach out and use these services. They are there for you. > > Our language service has also provided support from more than 5000 contacts, ensuring whether you are ACC or MSD, you are able to pass on the support that is needed, in the language that is needed. To all those working within this service, we say thank you. > > … > > He sought many things from his act of terror, but one was notoriety. > > And that is why you will never hear me mention his name. > > He is a terrorist. He is a criminal. He is an extremist. > > But he will, when I speak, be nameless. > > And to others I implore you: speak the names of those who were lost, rather than name of the man who took them. > > He may have sought notoriety, but we in New Zealand will give him nothing. Not even his name. > > … > > We will also look at the role social media played and what steps we can take, including on the international stage, and in unison with our partners. > > There is no question that ideas and language of division and hate have existed for decades, but their form of distribution, the tools of organisation, they are new. > > We cannot simply sit back and accept that these platforms just exist and that what is said on them is not the responsibility of the place where they are published. They are the publisher. Not just the postman. There cannot be a case of all profit no responsibility. This of course doesn’t take away the responsibility we too must show as a nation, to confront racism, violence and extremism. I don’t have all of the answers now, but we must collectively find them. And we must act. > > … > > One I wish to mention, is that of Hati Mohemmed Daoud Nabi. > > He was the 71-year-old man who opened the door at the Al-Noor mosque and uttered the words ‘Hello brother, welcome’. His final words. > > … > > Safety means being free from the fear of violence. > > But it also means being free from the fear of those sentiments of racism and hate, that create a place where violence can flourish. > > And every single one of us has the power to change that. > > On Friday it will be a week since the attack. > > Members of the Muslim community will gather for worship on that day. > > Let us acknowledge their grief as they do. > > Let’s support them as they gather again for worship. > > We are one, they are us. > > Tatau tatau > > Al salam Alaikum > > Weh Rahmat Allah > > Weh Barakaatuh > **[‘We cannot know your grief, but we can walk with you at every stage’](https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/19-03-2019/we-cannot-know-your-grief-but-we-can-walk-with-you-at-every-stage)** > > In the first address to parliament since Friday’s terrorist attack on Christchurch, Jacinda Ardern paid tribute to the Muslim community and pledged to deny the perpetrator the notoriety he craves (NB: Large extract in compliance with [Section 59 of the NZ Copyright Act.](http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1994/0143/latest/DLM345993.html)) ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2019, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/240 "2019-03-19T03:42:00Z")
…and in contrast, the “Leader of the Free World.” > [@President of the United States](#): > > The Fake News Media is working overtime to blame me for the horrible attack in New Zealand. They will have to work very hard to prove that one. So Ridiculous! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169.md?page=13)