# Mass shootings at mosques in New Zealand **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 15, 2019, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169 "2019-03-15T04:15:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/61 "2019-03-16T00:58:00Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Or said the worshippers should have been armed - until realizing that this happened on the other side of the world. I somehow doubt that such people would be likely to advocate in favor of arming Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/62 "2019-03-16T01:00:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is weirdly specific. I imagine if we look at all terrorism in which white supremacists are either the killers or the primary targets, we’d find that white supremacists are much, much more likely to be the killers. That ignorant racist buttmunch already has enough bandwidth dedicated to him–could we maybe not entertain him here? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/63 "2019-03-16T01:40:36Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Translation: “This makes the Right look bad, so I’d better make sure everyone knows that The Muslims Are The Real Monsters.” Damn straight. This confirms my opinion of Slacker. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/64 "2019-03-16T02:14:09Z")
To me it is ironic that the shooter is angry about foreigners whom he sees as an invading force. I wonder what the Maori natives thought when the Europeans started moving in? ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/65 "2019-03-16T02:34:58Z")
And the white trash “president” [downplays terrorism](https://edition.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/03/15/trump-white-nationalism-sot-vpx.cnn) when it’s his fellow travellers. Nothing to see here, folks. Some fine people on both sides, yes sirree bob. ---
**Author:** ![Reindeer\_Flotilla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reindeer_flotilla/32/3024_2.png) [@Reindeer\_Flotilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reindeer_Flotilla)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/66 "2019-03-16T02:38:46Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Better get that translator checked. :rolleyes: I have always vigorously opposed the right, since I started posting here and well before. In my adult life, I voted for Gore, Kerry, Obama, Obama, and Hillary. And I will not be voting Trump in 2020! The Houston Astrodome never had this much astroturf. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/67 "2019-03-16T03:11:33Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > To me it is ironic that the shooter is angry about foreigners whom he sees as an invading force. I wonder what the Maori natives thought when the Europeans started moving in? The irony is far richer than that. The gunman is Australian, more foreign to New Zealand than many of those he shot, who were most likely citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/68 "2019-03-16T03:35:14Z")
The killer flashed the alt right OK sign in court. The same one employed by Trump supporters in the White House. > > But I’m sure that’s a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/69 "2019-03-16T06:48:30Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > We constantly hear “mentally ill people are much more likely to be the victims than the perpetrators of violence.” Is that “weirdly specific” too? > > And you seem to be missing that my point was to say “this is a terrible tragedy, first and foremost; secondarily, it undercuts my thesis and I am acknowledging that.” I thought you might be glad I didn’t just go dark after this shooting, and selectively pipe up when shootings fit my narrative. …fuck off you racist, islamophobe, piece of shit. We don’t need to hear your fucking voice in this thread. You should have been banned long ago. Do the decent thing and stop sullying this thread with your presence. You don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/70 "2019-03-16T07:33:25Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > The killer flashed the alt right OK sign in court. The same one employed by Trump > supporters in the White House. > > [https://twitter.com/josh\_emerson/status/1106688135117893637?s=21](https://twitter.com/josh_emerson/status/1106688135117893637?s=21) > > [https://twitter.com/wheelswordsmith/status/1106731967997837312?s=21](https://twitter.com/wheelswordsmith/status/1106731967997837312?s=21) > > But I’m sure that’s a coincidence. No, it’s not a coincidence, his stated goal was to sow division and inflame Left Vs. Right division, and seems that a lot of people here are helping the bastard with the plan. Well done. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/71 "2019-03-16T07:58:27Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > No, it’s not a coincidence, his stated goal was to sow division and inflame Left Vs. Right division, and seems that a lot of people here are helping the bastard with the plan. > > Well done. :smack: …lets not pretend that holding people who hold beliefs like this: > [@Interesting podcast conversation between Sam Harris and Charles Murray (of "Bell Curve" fame)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/interesting-podcast-conversation-between-sam-harris-and-charles-murray-of-bell-curve-fame/785052/1799): > > I have perhaps not said, but will say now FTR, that I also welcome immigrants from virtually any other part of the world, **as long as they are not Muslim.** to account is in any way complicit with with the stated goal of this terrorist. This isn’t about “left vs right.” SlackerInc insists he is “on the left.” I’ll take him at his word. SlackerInc also doesn’t welcome Muslim’s to his country. I’ll take him at his word about that as well. People who hold view like that shouldn’t be given a platform. And they don’t need your defense. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/72 "2019-03-16T08:02:27Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > No, it’s not a coincidence, his stated goal was to sow division and inflame Left Vs. Right division, and seems that a lot of people here are helping the bastard with the plan. > > Well done. :smack: What a worthless statement. Alt-right edgelords and the “centrists” who defend them should be policed like all other radical extremists, clerics, and terrorist sympathizers. “Great replacement,” “White genocide,” “ethnostate,” “race realist,” and all other alarmist, dehumanizing right-wing conspiracies need to be treated as **the violent call-to-arms that they are**. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/73 "2019-03-16T08:12:05Z")
The murderous lump of garbage in human form behind the massacre explicitly stated that the type of reactions your are engaging in was part of his plan. You just can’t help yourselves, can you? ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/74 "2019-03-16T08:20:33Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > The murderous lump of garbage in human form behind the massacre explicitly stated that the type of reactions your are engaging in was part of his plan. > You just can’t help yourselves, can you? He got me to hate violent alarmist rhetoric? Wow, I shouldn’t play into his hands. I guess the alt-right deserve to be treated as our moral equals. Thank you. This epiphany wouldn’t have happened without you and that high horse of yours. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/75 "2019-03-16T08:20:53Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > The murderous lump of garbage in human form behind the massacre explicitly stated that the type of reactions your are engaging in was part of his plan. > You just can’t help yourselves, can you? …that “murderous lump of garbage” is trolling you. That’s what these people do. I’m not going to let him dictate how I live my life, what I say, what I do and who I call out. You’ve fallen completely into his trap. But you just couldn’t help doing that, could you? Do you really expect me not to call out Islamophobia when I see it, just because of what this “murderous lump of garbage” said? You want me to shut-the-fuck up? Shutting the fuck up is what got us to where we are today. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/76 "2019-03-16T09:00:28Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Curiosity–what does one of these rampages look like? What would one look like in places _I_ frequent? What chances did the victims have to escape that they failed to take? What chances did the lucky ones have to overcome the shooters? Confirm it actually happened. To humanize the victims, and to make the killings real vs names or categories of people on the television. To see whether the body count is due to the specific weapon & configuration or to strategy, luck, and helplessness of the victims. I could go on, and none of my reasons would have anything resembling a pleasant orientation. Sure, I guess those are all things that people _could_ get from it but I just can’t put myself in that mindset. For me it is too intrusive, almost pornographic to the point where it overrides any intellectual benefit I might get from it. My reaction to it is also coloured somewhat by what I imagine to be the motivations are of the people broadcasting the footage. > [@](#): > > To say a viewer would watch the video for kicks or worse (although this being the world it is, there are surely some) is just plain lazy and ridiculously judgmental. To make a blanket statement of that nature would indeed be lazy and ridiculous. The average person is not going to do it for kicks or any malevolent reason, it is going to be the equivalent of slowing down to look at a car-crash except in this case they are driving out of their way to do so. (I confess I keep my eyes firmly on the road when passing RTA’s). If it were a video of a real rape and murder I suspect there would be more of a “kicks” element to it for more viewers and my initial reaction would be that footage of such a crime is “different” somehow and there is less scope for legitimate viewing. Though I have a very hard time nailing down exactly why it is different. The TLDR is that I feel very uncomfortable with people seeking it out even though I’m not entirely certain myself why I feel that way. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/77 "2019-03-16T09:00:49Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > The murderous lump of garbage in human form behind the massacre explicitly stated that the type of reactions your are engaging in was part of his plan. A really dumb plan. The kind of accelerationist, race-war fantasy plan that typically has the opposite of its intended effect. I see no reason to care about it. Also, refusing to condemn the Right, admit how bad they are and actually stand up to them is exactly what has let people like him become so numerous and powerful. Not the opposite. WWII wasn’t won by being nice to the Nazis and pretending they weren’t bad people. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/78 "2019-03-16T09:04:12Z")
It’s very simple, if you use this atrocity to increase the Us Vs. Them rhetoric you are carrying out his plans to create conflict as he explicitly stated. When a terrorist tells you he is going to do something so that the reaction he expects from you will fulfill his agenda, most non-stupid people would refuse to play along. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/79 "2019-03-16T09:13:57Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > It’s very simple, if you use this atrocity to increase the Us Vs. Them rhetoric you are carrying out his plans to create conflict as he explicitly stated. > When a terrorist tells you he is going to do something so that the reaction he expects from you will fulfill his agenda, most non-stupid people would refuse to play along. Where is your moral compass? There **is** an Us vs. Them US = all peaceful people. Them = those that deny the Social Contract. My tolerance does not extend to those who advocate dehumanization and violence towards minorities. Fullstop. I barely can tolerate those who defend these people. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2019, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/80 "2019-03-16T09:37:46Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > It’s very simple, if you use this atrocity to increase the Us Vs. Them rhetoric you are carrying out his plans to create conflict as he explicitly stated. …your a fucking tool. It is “us vs them.” Its us, on both the left and the right, who are opposing the racists and the bigots. This isn’t “rhetoric.” This is about survival. What the fuck do you think happened yesterday? You are being trolled and you’ve fucking fallen for it. You’ve fallen for the terrorist narrative. > [@](#): > > When a terrorist tells you he is going to do something so that the reaction he expects from you will fulfill his agenda, most non-stupid people would refuse to play along. And yet here you are, playing the fuck along. Are you fucking stupid? What the fuck is it you want me to do? You want me to ignore someone who has declared that they “welcome immigrants from virtually any other part of the world, as long as they are not Muslim.” You want me to pretend that he didn’t say that, lest the “terrorists win?” This is the reality: > **[The Shooter’s Manifesto Was Designed to Troll](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/03/the-shooters-manifesto-was-designed-to-troll/585058/?fbclid=IwAR1kiaNyrLHWYt7pet0YlFSIfSHVdarGprlZh00L_GehfX5m6XDkh12Ba5c)** > > The violent rhetoric was written for an audience. You’ve been trolled. You are being played. You don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. I’m not playing nice with the likes of you and Slacker any more. Not after what happened yesterday. You can just fuck-the-fuck off. You are enabling these people. Stop doing that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169.md?page=5)