# Mass shootings at mosques in New Zealand **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 15, 2019, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169 "2019-03-15T04:15:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/121 "2019-03-17T04:19:44Z")
We have enough pols and individuals barking repulsive racist screeds, thank you very much. Don’t need to import any more. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/122 "2019-03-17T04:33:16Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > You don’t have to comment. You could just shut the fuck up and not say anything. That’s one of your options, but instead you choose to criticize outrage in a situation in which outrage is appropriate. Of course you, [being one of the worst offenders in the SDMB](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=867721) [in the category of people who incite hatred](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=863873), would object to the notion of not doing things that would further escalate conflict. Maybe **Orcenio** can have a word with you on the topic of dehumanizing people. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/123 "2019-03-17T04:45:09Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think what terrorists of all kinds want us to do is to have the discussions on _their_ terms. They _want_ to polarise and divide and avoiding doing that is the part that is completely in our control. > The above statement you quoted is bigoted bullshit. Acknowledging it as such and calling it out is the right thing to do. Pointedly criticising those that spew such stuff is the right thing to do. What is far more problematic and what delights the extremists is when we begin hollow out the middle ground of discussion and make it a no-go area. > There is a legitimate, non-bigoted, case to be made regarding controlled immigration. The danger (which is already manifesting itself I think) is that those even beginning to have that discussion get labelled as far-right sympathisers and as such their opinion can be safely ignored. > > I’m not suggesting that you are doing this, neither explicitly nor implicitly, but handing that middle ground to bigots and extremists is very dangerous indeed and we should all be careful not to do so. As seen here one of the immediate reactions is to try to silence people who call for a non kneejerk reaction. The old “we are either with us or against us”. One thing I’ve been thinking is how much of a mirrored situation this is; when an Islamic terrorist commits an atrocity there’s always the knuckle dragging contingent that comes out of the woodwork with their talk of, for instance, banning Islam, and then people respond that would be stupid because, among other things, it would only further inflame conflict and that’s what the terrorist want. I’m willing to bet there are many people right in this thread that have walked right through the looking glass without even noticing. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/124 "2019-03-17T05:45:22Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Nothing to celebrate IMO, even if he is a shitbag. On the contrary. Different countries taking various measures to officially stamp out vocal racist shitbaggery might be a good thing - last time we had to shoot it out and they still had the time to perpetrate immense horrors. Trying to slap the shit out of their mouths before they get anywhere close to power might work out this time around. Speaking of which, America and Great Britain, you’re not doing you part. Points \*\*will \*\*be docked. And Australia, you did the Tony Abbott thing, so you’re still on watch. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/125 "2019-03-17T05:51:26Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Why, exactly? Is it because that makes it more likely that he’ll keep stinking up the place in the US? Because I’m a strong supporter of hewing as close as possible to free speech absolutism. Not because of the First Amendment per se (I understand that doesn’t apply to Australia, or even to the U.S. necessarily when it comes to choosing to deny entry to a non-citizen), but because of the kinds of principles John Stuart Mill laid out. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/126 "2019-03-17T06:25:17Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > [A kid hits Anning with an egg](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/16/world/australia/australia-anning-egg-new-zealand-shooting.html). (He–of course–reacted calmly and with class.) My initial reaction: Hey, Senator. Why did you punch the guy? After all, you brought it on yourself, right? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/127 "2019-03-17T06:45:04Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Because I’m a strong supporter of hewing as close as possible to free speech absolutism. The problem with free speech absolutism is that humans are very easy to manipulate. And most of the time that’s fine, because most of the time people only try to manipulate other people to get attention, or love, or cake. But history has demonstrated time and again that if you let people manipulate other people for hatred and violence, then violence will happen. Sometimes the only proper answer to speech isn’t further speech, it is to drown speech with a heartfelt amount of FUCK YOOOOUUUUs, hopefully followed by a punch in the mouth. And yes, I do realize that rationale can be turned around and is absolutely instrumentalized by the hatred brigade in order to justify their own violence. But it’s kind of like how porn is hard to strictly define but you just know it when you see it : if you have a working moral compass, you know when the time for earnestly engaging is over and the time for you can fuck right off is nigh. Ultimately morality is the only yardstick by which to go. And you better hope the right one has been drilled or happened unto you by the time you become an adult. Otherwise you’re hopefully quite likely to get punched in the mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/128 "2019-03-17T07:24:16Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > On the contrary. Different countries taking various measures to officially stamp out vocal racist shitbaggery might be a good thing - last time **we** had to shoot it out and they still had the time to perpetrate immense horrors. Trying to slap the shit out of their mouths before they get anywhere close to power might work out this time around. > > Speaking of which, **America and Great Britain, you’re not doing you part.** Points will be docked. And Australia, you did the Tony Abbott thing, so you’re still on watch. _Checks profile_ Uhh…dude. You’re _French_. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/129 "2019-03-17T07:33:16Z")
I’d ban Milo just because he’s an annoying jackass, regardless of his politics. > [@monstro](#): > > Someone who wants people to think they support the white power movement is politically equivalent to someone who supports the white power movement. > > And anyone is an “alt-righty” is just too chickenshit to label themselves as a racist, even though that’s what they are. Well true – but that’s the case for most racists. I just think a lot of the people doing it are trolls who are all, “derp derp derp, look, at me!!! Think I’ll trigger some libtards!!!” Best not to give them the satisfaction. (As for “accidents”, if you’re talking about the Navy guy, the video showed he was scratching his ear) And some people genuinely don’t know what it is. Like I said, my parents would be completely clueless. ---
**Author:** ![ataraxy22](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ataraxy22/32/307_2.png) [@ataraxy22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ataraxy22)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/130 "2019-03-17T08:11:27Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Milo banned from Australia after spewing about “extremist Leftism and barbaric, alien religious cultures”. good ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/131 "2019-03-17T08:51:50Z")
> [@Unreconstructed\_Man](#): > > _Checks profile_ > > Uhh…dude. You’re _French_. What’s your point ? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/132 "2019-03-17T09:12:01Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Because I’m a strong supporter of hewing as close as possible to free speech absolutism. …how do you reconcile “free speech absolutism” with your opinion that Muslims shouldn’t be allowed in America and your decision to actively work to not defeat the racist, anti-semitic President of the United States but instead a black, Muslim member of Congress? ---
**Author:** ![Unreconstructed\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/76d3ee/32.png) [@Unreconstructed\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unreconstructed_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/133 "2019-03-17T10:01:11Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > What’s your point ? C’mon. Think it through. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/134 "2019-03-17T10:51:28Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > One thing I’ve been thinking is how much of a mirrored situation this is; when an Islamic terrorist commits an atrocity there’s always the knuckle dragging contingent that comes out of the woodwork with their talk of, for instance, banning Islam, and then people respond that would be stupid because, among other things, it would only further inflame conflict and that’s what the terrorist want. > > I’m willing to bet there are many people right in this thread that have walked right through the looking glass without even noticing. It takes a real shallow comprehension level to not see why a person would advocate **for** action against alt-right extremists and **against** blanket Muslim reprisals, in the aftermath of respective right-wing and Islamic terrorism. The former is tackling the dangerous extremists inciting violence, while the latter is targeting random peaceful people (and a good example of right-wing extremism itself). Our governments must (and do) monitor and act against Islamic militants **who are promoting, organizing, fueling and inflaming** violent extremism. Demanding that these rules should also apply to the alarmist, violent, conspiracy laden rhetoric of White Nationalists, “ethnostaters,” and “White Genociders” isn’t hypocritical nor outlandish. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/135 "2019-03-17T11:09:22Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > What a worthless statement. Alt-right edgelords and the “centrists” who defend them should be policed like all other radical extremists, clerics, and terrorist sympathizers. > > “Great replacement,” “White genocide,” “ethnostate,” “race realist,” and all other alarmist, dehumanizing right-wing conspiracies need to be treated as **the violent call-to-arms that they are**. As soon as you say that or try to do it, these same fuckers who want to deport or kill based on religion or skin tone will scream about their freedom. Someone needs to tell them “fuck you” and then take care of them. That includes all the shit stirrers like Trump, King, Limbaugh, Alex jones, Gorka, Bannon, Hannity, O’Reily, Yannopoulis, “the crying nazi”, etc etc etc. They cry freedom of speech and freedom of the press, to defend hate speech, sedition, and incitement. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/136 "2019-03-17T11:13:10Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Nothing to celebrate IMO, even if he is a shitbag. Why not? To hell with that shit eating pustulent maggot. I’ll celebrate AGAIN, if and when he drops dead. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/137 "2019-03-17T11:37:03Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > because of the kinds of principles John Stuart Mill laid out. I don’t see how colonialist racism is a reason for free speech absolutism, but you do you. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/138 "2019-03-17T12:19:13Z")
Banquet Bear, cite for my not working to defeat Trump? :mad: I volunteered for, and donated to, Hillary’s campaign in 2016, and you better fucking believe I will redouble my efforts in 2020 once we choose a nominee. Even if it’s Bernie. ETA: > [@SteveG1](#): > > Why not? To hell with that shit eating pustulent maggot. I’ll celebrate AGAIN, if and when he drops dead. I will celebrate with you when he drops dead (well, depending on why he drops dead, I guess). Corporate or governmental action to muzzle him is what I will not celebrate. First, they muzzled the shit eating pustulent maggots… ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/139 "2019-03-17T12:22:12Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > What’s your point ? What do you know about free speech? You guys speak a totally different language! (I have no idea what the fuck he’s on about, either) ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169/140 "2019-03-17T12:30:26Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Banquet Bear, cite for my not working to defeat Trump? :mad: I volunteered for, and donated to, Hillary’s campaign in 2016, and you better fucking believe I will redouble my efforts in 2020 once we choose a nominee. Even if it’s Bernie. …are you seriously asknig me for a cite you racist fuck? You’ve started two threads on the Muslim member of congress. One was a pitting. And one where you claim to have: > [@I will be working to defeat Ilhan Omar in her next election, if she's still around](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-will-be-working-to-defeat-ilhan-omar-in-her-next-election-if-shes-still-around/830818/1): > > Although I do not live in her district, I am a member in good standing of the DFL (what the state Democratic Party is called here in Minnesota), and I have contacted my congressman, state senator, and state rep (all DFLers) as well as DFL Governor Tim Walz and Senator Tina Smith to ask that she be censured or preferably expelled from the party. If that doesn’t get her out, I will be donating to her strongest primary opponent next year, and maybe even travelling to her district to volunteer on behalf of that opponent. This is just not acceptable. She isn’t even in your fucking district. Yet you’ve contacted your congressman, your state senator, your state rep, the Governor and another senator to get her censured or expelled. And if that doesn’t work you are going to donate to her opponent. And you are even considering travelling to her district to volunteer on behalf of her opponent. Are you seriously comparing these significant efforts to voting for Hillary? Do you think we are fucking stupid? That we can’t read the very words that you have written here? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mass-shootings-at-mosques-in-new-zealand/831169.md?page=8)